Cont: UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[JayUtah]

What exactly is this "NASA-grade technology"?

Apparently a pretty red herring. The article is a protracted explanation for why a hand-held x-ray fluorescence spectrometer failed to identify 90 percent of a small sample. Also, water is wet. Apparently their logic runs like this: NASA uses x-ray fluorescence. The claimants used x-ray fluorescence—voilà! "NASA-grade technology."

A more conventional mass spectrometer would probably have no problem identifying the composition of the specimens. But it's a destructive test. So while the claimants would know more accurately what their object is made of, they wouldn't have it to parade around conventions and meetings where people will pay to see it.

 

[arthwollipot]

WTF? Idiots! It has to contain known elements. I'm sure any competent chemical identification lab could tell you what it consists of.

Anyone who claims "this sample contains elements not on the Periodic Table" doesn't understand what the Periodic Table is or what it does.

 

[bigred]

Believers can't be bothered with facts. They live for the stories that feed their world-view.

For a sec there I thought I accidentally clicked on the Politics area of the site.

Anyway

There have been incidents, rare as they are, that aren't as yet explainable. But that doesn't equate to aliens.

There are many reasons to believe we have never been visited by aliens, but one of the biggest to me is that (and I may have posted this earlier, pardon if so) despite massive leaps in tech, the video evidence is still mostly nothing but fuzzy dots and the like, as if they were taken in the 1920s, and from extreme distances...apparently nobody owns zoom lenses anymore.

I suspect there is life out there somewhere, perhaps even intelligent life, absurdly rare as it is, but the odds of them having ever come even remotely close to visiting us is really close to zero. In fact, the odds of them even existing at the same time as us with even the most basic of technology is pretty close to zero.

And if the Godfather of all alien stories (Roswell) is to be believed, wow they suck as pilots.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Anyone who claims "this sample contains elements not on the Periodic Table" doesn't understand what the Periodic Table is or what it does.

Nobel Prize for someone for sure!

 

[arthwollipot]

Nobel Prize for someone for sure!

No, not Nobel Prize for someone, because an element that's not on the table can't exist!

The periodic table counts protons - from one to 118, which may be the theoretical maximum*. All of the numbers are accounted for - there aren't any gaps. You can't have an atom with a number of protons that isn't on this list! It's a logical absurdity.

*yes, caveat caveat caveat there's a theoretical island of stability yeah I'm oversimplifying yeah but what's pretty sure is that you can't make stuff out of elements above this number.

 

[Explorer]

No, not Nobel Prize for someone, because an element that's not on the table can't exist!

The periodic table counts protons - from one to 118, which may be the theoretical maximum*. All of the numbers are accounted for - there aren't any gaps. You can't have an atom with a number of protons that isn't on this list! It's a logical absurdity.

*yes, caveat caveat caveat there's a theoretical island of stability yeah I'm oversimplifying yeah but what's pretty sure is that you can't make stuff out of elements above this number.

Novel material would be much more likely to be something like graphene (an unusual application of a common element in a different form, or a composite material not so far known, and that surely is more likely to constitute an alien material if it ever exists, or existed, and not necessarily a new element absent on the Periodic table. For example, polymers are chemically engineered constructed materials used in the manufacture of a wide range of products, and the range is ever expanding, and new ones hitherto not known to polymer scientists, could constitute an "alien" material. The problem for proof is that if we humans can design and produce compounds of novel materials, so can aliens, and even if we find some such unknown examples, are these still man made but rare experimental materials, or are they indeed not of this world. This scenario is always going to be the counter to definitive proof.

 

[arthwollipot]

Novel material would be much more likely to be something like graphene (an unusual application of a common element in a different form, or a composite material not so far known, and that surely is more likely to constitute an alien material if it ever exists, or existed, and not necessarily a new element absent on the Periodic table. For example, polymers are chemically engineered constructed materials used in the manufacture of a wide range of products, and the range is ever expanding, and new ones hitherto not known to polymer scientists, could constitute an "alien" material. The problem for proof is that if we humans can design and produce compounds of novel materials, so can aliens, and even if we find some such unknown examples, are these still man made but rare experimental materials, or are they indeed not of this world. This scenario is always going to be the counter to definitive proof.

Indeed, but that's not what was claimed. They didn't claim a novel compound which hasn't been discovered by human science, they claimed a new element - a metal "different from all others on the Periodic Table", which is completely absurd.

 

[steenkh]

No, not Nobel Prize for someone, because an element that's not on the table can't exist!

The periodic table counts protons - from one to 118, which may be the theoretical maximum*. All of the numbers are accounted for - there aren't any gaps. You can't have an atom with a number of protons that isn't on this list! It's a logical absurdity.

Who says it was made of atoms? Obviously, the aliens have used a material not made out of protons, neutrons, and electrons, which is why it isn’t in the periodic table. You fail to understand that these aliens have knowledge and technology far exceeding what our puny brains can fathom.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

No, not Nobel Prize for someone, because an element that's not on the table can't exist!

The periodic table counts protons - from one to 118, which may be the theoretical maximum*. All of the numbers are accounted for - there aren't any gaps. You can't have an atom with a number of protons that isn't on this list! It's a logical absurdity.

*yes, caveat caveat caveat there's a theoretical island of stability yeah I'm oversimplifying yeah but what's pretty sure is that you can't make stuff out of elements above this number.

Can't take a joke, eh?

And I'm reporting you to Bob Lazar.

 

[Puppycow]

UFO hunters claim to be in possession of debris from alien space craft that is lighter than a petal

Top rate stuff.

The part about further samples being stolen from their post box is the cherry on top.

They got it from a "Russian researcher" who I'm sure is 100% legit, and not a clever scammer who found a perfect mark.

 

[8enotto]

The Russian researcher had just opened and eaten a envelope of PopTarts and was about to open a bag of chips as he discovered that those wily aliens had printed " not for individual sale" on the metal of thier spacecraft.

Then weighed the sample in a new scientific measure of petals before his kids had eaten the potato chips from the 2nd sample and lost the bag.

Of course this makes the first sample so valuable it can never be turned over to anyone for further testing ever.
It will be stored in the same secret vault as all the alien bodies, Bigfoot bodies and scat samples, the map to find Jimmy Hoffa and proof of god.

 

[arthwollipot]

Can't take a joke, eh?

And I'm reporting you to Bob Lazar.

I'm so much fun at parties.

 

[shemp]

No, not Nobel Prize for someone, because an element that's not on the table can't exist!

The periodic table counts protons - from one to 118, which may be the theoretical maximum*. All of the numbers are accounted for - there aren't any gaps. You can't have an atom with a number of protons that isn't on this list! It's a logical absurdity.

*yes, caveat caveat caveat there's a theoretical island of stability yeah I'm oversimplifying yeah but what's pretty sure is that you can't make stuff out of elements above this number.

Apparently the real difficulty will be getting past 120. 119 and 120 will only need to add electrons to the 8s shell, after that it gets "crazy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table#Future_extension_beyond_the_seventh_period

But of course, it would be a trivial achievement for sufficiently advanced aliens.

 

[shemp]

Also, if you look very closely at the periodic table with a powerful microscope, you'll find secret elements hiding in between the "official" elements.

 

[Puppycow]

Anyone who claims "this sample contains elements not on the Periodic Table" doesn't understand what the Periodic Table is or what it does.

To be sure, the quote was:

That means that it is either not a metal or a totally unknown metal different from all others in the periodic table, the researchers claim

There are elements on the Periodic Table that are not metals (at least the way chemists define "metal").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal#Periodic_table_distribution

Of course, these people have not demonstrated anything even remotely interesting, if they haven't eliminated the first half of that "either/or".

 

[Explorer]

Indeed, but that's not what was claimed. They didn't claim a novel compound which hasn't been discovered by human science, they claimed a new element - a metal "different from all others on the Periodic Table", which is completely absurd.

Yes, I take your point, but I was making a more general point regarding any future claims, in that we are always going to have a problem definitely proving or otherwise, something as truly "alien"

 

[arthwollipot]

There are elements on the Periodic Table that are not metals (at least the way chemists define "metal").

Yes, that is technically a flaw in my rant.

 

[wollery]

To be sure, the quote was:


There are elements on the Periodic Table that are not metals (at least the way chemists define "metal").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal#Periodic_table_distribution

Of course, these people have not demonstrated anything even remotely interesting, if they haven't eliminated the first half of that "either/or".

I’m an astronomer.

Anything other than hydrogen is a metal.

[emoji2957]

 

[theprestige]

I’m an astronomer.

Anything other than hydrogen is a metal.

[emoji 2957]

I'm aware of the convention, but have never seen a sensible explanation for it.

 

[wollery]

I'm aware of the convention, but have never seen a sensible explanation for it.

In a star most other elements are present in such small amounts (relatively) that it makes sense to lump them all in together, particularly because pretty much any main sequence star with (for instance) x amount of titanium will almost always have y amount of calcium, etc.

Metallicity (i.e. the overall amount of other elements) is a good indicator of which population a star belongs to and which stars it might be related to.