Transwomen are not Women - Part 14

[theprestige]

"Foot pursuit, northbound First at Main, white male, red dress, flowing blonde tresses."

 

[Elaedith]

Benjamin Ryan discusses newly unsealed documents revealing some of the internal communications of WPATH members expressing concern about the evidence, and political influence on guidelines development.

Singal has done a summary of his article recently published in The Economist covering the WPATH evidence.

There is further information in the WPATH emails about the missing systematic evidence reviews commissioned by WPATH from Johns Hopkins.

 

[d4m10n]

"Foot pursuit, northbound First at Main, white male, red dress, flowing blonde tresses."

Courteous of the perp to hand over his driver's license before scampering away.

ETA: Probably the more likely use case is whenever you need to show someone your i.d. in the course of everyday lawful business.

 

[theprestige]

Courteous of the perp to hand over his driver's license before scampering away.

I've been bingeing cop cam videos lately. It happens.

 

[angrysoba]

Singal has done a summary of his article recently published in The Economist covering the WPATH evidence.

There is further information in the WPATH emails about the missing systematic evidence reviews commissioned by WPATH from Johns Hopkins.

Just to get clear on this, did WPATH commission a systematic review from
Johns Hopkins, and it was supposed to be similar to what the Cass Review eventually produced? Only WPATH were upset with Johns Hopkins because the review was not going the way WPATH wanted it to?

Have the Johns Hopkins reviews actually come out? If not, are they expected to?

Was the Cass Review commissioned in response to the slow appearance of the Johns Hopkins review or was it a separate decision? Or did it have anything to do with GIDS?

Is there some kind of easy to see timeline on this?

Are these questions very basic things that I should know already? Am I being annoying?

 

[lionking]

Men cannot become women, women cannot become men, men cannot become pregnant.

The End.

Yawn.

 

[Elaedith]

Just to get clear on this, did WPATH commission a systematic review from
Johns Hopkins, and it was supposed to be similar to what the Cass Review eventually produced? Only WPATH were upset with Johns Hopkins because the review was not going the way WPATH wanted it to?

Have the Johns Hopkins reviews actually come out? If not, are they expected to?

Was the Cass Review commissioned in response to the slow appearance of the Johns Hopkins review or was it a separate decision? Or did it have anything to do with GIDS?

Is there some kind of easy to see timeline on this?

Are these questions very basic things that I should know already? Am I being annoying?

From what I understand, WPATH commissioned a series of systematic evidence reviews from Johns Hopkins to underpin their SOC8 guidelines, which they claim are evidence-based. I read somewhere that two reviews were published, but Singal says one. I thought I had tracked down two but I now think one of these was just funded by WPATH but is not related specifically to SOC8 and was not preregistered.

On PROSPERO I can only see three registrations funded by WPATH, one of which has been published and two completed and not published. However, it is possible that more than one publication was intended from a single registration (as the Cass review published nine papers covered by a single registration). Singal appears to interpret the unsealed emails as indicating there were meant to be six reviews published.

From the evidence coming out, it appears WPATH attempted to control and manipulate publication based on the findings, in particular not wanting anything published that would not help advance political objectives.

I don’t think the Cass review had anything to do with the WPATH reviews. Reviews for the Cass research were previously conducted by NICE (National Institute for Clinical Excellence), but they downgraded all of the evidence for being poor quality and could not draw any conclusions (similar to the Swedish review). Cass then commissioned new research from the University of York using a much more lenient grading criterion for non RCTs that rejected just under half the research.

I don’t have an exact timeline because all of this has come out in bits and pieces, but it should be simple to construct one.
You aren’t being annoying. The people being annoying are those who haven’t bothered looking at any evidence but keep spouting activist propaganda and calling people transphobes for correcting their misinformation.

 

[Pixel42]

I don’t think the Cass review had anything to do with the WPATH reviews.

The main motivation for commissioning the Cass Review was surely the concerns raised about the work of the Gender Identity Development Service.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Identity_Development_Service

The Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) was a nationally operated health clinic in the United Kingdom that specialised in working with children with gender identity issues, including gender dysphoria.The service closed on 28 March 2024 after serious concerns were repeatedly raised over a number of years by several independent NHS whistleblowers.[1]

Launched in 1989, GIDS was commissioned by NHS England and took referrals from across the UK, although it was operated at a Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust site. GIDS was the only gender identity clinic for people under 18 in England and Wales and was the subject of much controversy. In July 2022, the NHS decided to close GIDS and replace it with regional healthcare centres, following the release of an interim report on the provision of gender identity services for children and adolescents conducted by paediatrician Hilary Cass.[2]

 

[gabeygoat]

Yawn.

agreed

 

[lionking]

agreed

I mean, herc seriously thinks he has nailed this thread with logic that only he possesses and which is beyond the rest of us.

The social, political, legal, health, safety etc etc etc aspects of this whole subject are simply not resolved by simplistic definitions. Which is why this thread has continued.

Continued fringe resets like his are simply pathetic.

 

[angrysoba]

From what I understand, WPATH commissioned a series of systematic evidence reviews from Johns Hopkins to underpin their SOC8 guidelines, which they claim are evidence-based. I read somewhere that two reviews were published, but Singal says one. I thought I had tracked down two but I now think one of these was just funded by WPATH but is not related specifically to SOC8 and was not preregistered.

On PROSPERO I can only see three registrations funded by WPATH, one of which has been published and two completed and not published. However, it is possible that more than one publication was intended from a single registration (as the Cass review published nine papers covered by a single registration). Singal appears to interpret the unsealed emails as indicating there were meant to be six reviews published.

From the evidence coming out, it appears WPATH attempted to control and manipulate publication based on the findings, in particular not wanting anything published that would not help advance political objectives.

I don’t think the Cass review had anything to do with the WPATH reviews. Reviews for the Cass research were previously conducted by NICE (National Institute for Clinical Excellence), but they downgraded all of the evidence for being poor quality and could not draw any conclusions (similar to the Swedish review). Cass then commissioned new research from the University of York using a much more lenient grading criterion for non RCTs that rejected just under half the research.

I don’t have an exact timeline because all of this has come out in bits and pieces, but it should be simple to construct one.
You aren’t being annoying. The people being annoying are those who haven’t bothered looking at any evidence but keep spouting activist propaganda and calling people transphobes for correcting their misinformation.

Thanks for your reply.
I was really just asking if I was being annoying because maybe a lot of what I was asking was common knowledge or been done to death.

I think that the more it can be looked at from a dispassionate eye the better, but there are clearly operatives on both sides who have dug themselves into very dogmatic positions.

Thanks again!

 

[Hercules56]

I mean, herc seriously thinks he has nailed this thread with logic that only he possesses and which is beyond the rest of us.

The social, political, legal, health, safety etc etc etc aspects of this whole subject are simply not resolved by simplistic definitions. Which is why this thread has continued.

Continued fringe resets like his are simply pathetic.

 

[Elaedith]

Thanks for your reply.
I was really just asking if I was being annoying because maybe a lot of what I was asking was common knowledge or been done to death.

I think that the more it can be looked at from a dispassionate eye the better, but there are clearly operatives on both sides who have dug themselves into very dogmatic positions.

Thanks again!

Here is a link to the unsealed documents. I think more have dropped just in the last day or so but I haven't been able to find a link to them yet.

 

[d4m10n]

Continued fringe resets like his are simply pathetic.

I dunno man; noobs gonna noob. It seems like an awfully high price of admission to expect people to familiarize themselves with several years of relatively abstruse terminology, backstory, & lore.

That said, if you're tryna speedrun, here's the bar:

 

[Sherkeu]

I dunno man; noobs gonna noob. It seems like an awfully high price of admission to expect people to familiarize themselves with several years of relatively abstruse terminology, backstory, & lore.

That said, if you're tryna speedrun, here's the bar:

[qimg]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240629/3455770da7805faada84e6c9db096501.jpg[/qimg]

 

[lionking]

I dunno man; noobs gonna noob. It seems like an awfully high price of admission to expect people to familiarize themselves with several years of relatively abstruse terminology, backstory, & lore.

That said, if you're tryna speedrun, here's the bar:

[qimg]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240629/3455770da7805faada84e6c9db096501.jpg[/qimg]

It’s not just the fringe reset, it’s the “look, here it is in a sentence for you idiots” narrative.

 

[theprestige]

I dunno man; noobs gonna noob. It seems like an awfully high price of admission to expect people to familiarize themselves with several years of relatively abstruse terminology, backstory, & lore.

If you're not going to familiarize yourself with the history, it might make more sense to not indulge in glib remarks.

 

[d4m10n]

Men cannot become women, women cannot become men, men cannot become pregnant.

The End.

Quoted here just for reference.

It’s not just the fringe reset, it’s the “look, here it is in a sentence for you idiots” narrative.

Fair enough.

If you're not going to familiarize yourself with the history, it might make more sense to not indulge in glib remarks.

Again, fair enough.

The only part of post #2458 I personally find objectionable (not offensive but worthy of objection) is "The End" at the end. On this very page we've seen trenchant analysis of the "systematic evidence reviews from Johns Hopkins" which were supposed to "underpin [WPATH] SOC8 guidelines" so it should be obvious that there is plenty of room left for discussion between scientifically literate skeptics over what the reality-based community ought to be inquiring about at the intersection of medical understanding and gender activism.

 

[Elaedith]

The only part of post #2458 I personally find objectionable (not offensive but worthy of objection) is "The End" at the end. On this very page we've seen trenchant analysis of the "systematic evidence reviews from Johns Hopkins" which were supposed to "underpin [WPATH] SOC8 guidelines" so it should be obvious that there is plenty of room left for discussion between scientifically literate skeptics over what the reality-based community ought to be inquiring about at the intersection of medical understanding and gender activism.

Yes, and there is more to come from what I understand.

I found this archived copy of Singal's Economist article on the WPATH documents (you can read it for free on the Economist but I think you have to sign up for a free account).

 

[Emily's Cat]

Courteous of the perp to hand over his driver's license before scampering away.

ETA: Probably the more likely use case is whenever you need to show someone your i.d. in the course of everyday lawful business.

I can't tell if you're trying to be funny here, or if you seriously think that cops can't tell that a male in a dress is actually male without checking their license.