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Split Thread Trump Document indictment (as opposed to other indictments)

Ziggurat said:
I think Biden should just face facts at this stage and accept that Cannon is an enemy foreign combatant and deal with her accordingly.
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And Trump is the fascist. Do you even hear yourself?

No, of course you don't.
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Ummm... It is Trump who is trying to claim that a president has "complete immunity" and thus can't be prosecuted for the Jan 6 terrorist attacks, and 1) the majority of the republican party is standing by him, 2) The supreme court (the majority of whom were nominated by republicans) is wasting time hearing the case, and 3) Judge Cannon appears to be using it as cover in delaying the documents trial.

I assume anyone who is not a MAGAchud recognizes that it is a dumb idea to give the president blanket immunity, but they joke about some of the things they COULD do if the immunity defense is successful. I doubt anyone really believes that Cannon should be sent to Gitmo, or Biden should call in Seal Team 6 to take out Trump.
 
given Cannon's supposed involvement with the Cuban Exile movement, setting the FBI on her tail could make her nervous enough to pass the case along "to focus on private matter".
 
Norman Alexander said:
She has been told to run down the clock, and that's what she is doing.
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I've heard an argument that doesn't require anyone to be pulling her strings. She could be running out the clock for her own benefit. If the election occurs before the trial, if Biden wins, the person she could piss off if there's a conviction (Trump) will be considerably less powerful. If Trump wins, it will become moot when he pardons himself.
 
The fat felon lives like a slob.

FORT PIERCE, Fla. — Special counsel Jack Smith revealed new photos in a court filing Monday evening that depict how haphazardly Donald Trump stored classified materials at his Florida property post-presidency, with golf shirts stuffed into boxes alongside the sensitive materials, newspaper clippings and other mementos.

The images — a grab-bag of national security secrets, souvenirs and various odds-and-ends — are part of prosecutors’ effort to show that the dozens of boxes containing government materials at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and private club were so messy and disorganized that investigators could not preserve the precise order of the contents they retrieved.

The Justice Department has released photos of the classified documents before, but the new filing offers the largest number of such images. In one, a sensitive document with redactions sits in a box atop of an edition of The Washington Post with a front-page story describing Trump’s difficult relationship with the FBI. Next to that box sit two cases of Diet Coke bottles.

Smith filed the photos in response to an argument from Trump that the criminal charges against him should be dismissed because investigators messed up the precise order of the boxes’ contents.

Trump, the former president and presumptive Republican nominee in this year’s election, faces 40 counts of willfully retaining classified information and obstructing the government’s efforts to retrieve them, serious national-security violations that typically would bring prison time if convicted.

His trial, originally set for May, has been postponed indefinitely as U.S. District Court Judge Aileen M. Cannon hears a slew of dismissal and other motions from Trump’s legal team, many of them far-fetched, and deals with other pretrial matters.

In one of those motions, filed June 10, lawyers for Trump wrote that by not precisely preserving an exact copy of the contents as they were found, investigators essentially destroyed evidence and therefore made it difficult for Trump to employ some defenses at trial.

Trump’s attorneys suggested that they may try to argue the classified documents were buried deep in the boxes with a mishmash of personal mementos, and their client simply lost the sensitive documents and lacked the kind of knowledge that would amount to criminal behavior.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati.../25/trump-classified-photos-boxes-mar-a-lago/
 
zorro99 said:
The fat felon lives like a slob.

FORT PIERCE, Fla. — Special counsel Jack Smith revealed new photos in a court filing Monday evening that depict how haphazardly Donald Trump stored classified materials at his Florida property post-presidency, with golf shirts stuffed into boxes alongside the sensitive materials, newspaper clippings and other mementos.

The images — a grab-bag of national security secrets, souvenirs and various odds-and-ends — are part of prosecutors’ effort to show that the dozens of boxes containing government materials at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and private club were so messy and disorganized that investigators could not preserve the precise order of the contents they retrieved.

The Justice Department has released photos of the classified documents before, but the new filing offers the largest number of such images. In one, a sensitive document with redactions sits in a box atop of an edition of The Washington Post with a front-page story describing Trump’s difficult relationship with the FBI. Next to that box sit two cases of Diet Coke bottles.

Smith filed the photos in response to an argument from Trump that the criminal charges against him should be dismissed because investigators messed up the precise order of the boxes’ contents.

Trump, the former president and presumptive Republican nominee in this year’s election, faces 40 counts of willfully retaining classified information and obstructing the government’s efforts to retrieve them, serious national-security violations that typically would bring prison time if convicted.

His trial, originally set for May, has been postponed indefinitely as U.S. District Court Judge Aileen M. Cannon hears a slew of dismissal and other motions from Trump’s legal team, many of them far-fetched, and deals with other pretrial matters.

In one of those motions, filed June 10, lawyers for Trump wrote that by not precisely preserving an exact copy of the contents as they were found, investigators essentially destroyed evidence and therefore made it difficult for Trump to employ some defenses at trial.

Trump’s attorneys suggested that they may try to argue the classified documents were buried deep in the boxes with a mishmash of personal mementos, and their client simply lost the sensitive documents and lacked the kind of knowledge that would amount to criminal behavior.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati.../25/trump-classified-photos-boxes-mar-a-lago/
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They're going with the "He's too stupid to crime" defense?
 
Mike! said:
They're going with the "He's too stupid to crime" defense?
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Sorta. The prosecution has to prove mens rea—that Trump intended to keep the documents, as opposed to accidentally misplaced them. For crimes that don't incur "strict liability," that's generally a requirement. Of course the problem is that Trump is on record admitting he knew he had them, and asking such dumb questions like, "What if we just don't give them back?"

Legal issues aside, that doesn't meant Trump isn't dumb as a post and doesn't live like a slob.
 
JayUtah said:
SCOTUS: immunity for official acts, but not for unofficial acts.
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In the Biden Whitehouse.

Well protecting the USA from internal and external threats is officially part of your role Joe, so yep can't see why you can't have Trump shot as a danger to the USA....
 
Question for those of us watching at home: is interfering with aid sent to the Ukraine until they dig up dirt on a political rival's family an "official act"?

Followup: is asking a Georgia state official to 'come up with more votes' to subvert the will of Georgian voters an "official act"?

Follow followup: is dealing with a political rival in any matter one sees fit an "official act"?
 
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bignickel said:
Question for those of us watching at home: is interfering with aid sent to the Ukraine until they dig up dirt on a political rival's family an "official act"?

Followup: is asking a Georgia state official to 'come up with more votes' to subvert the will of Georgian voters an "official act"?

Follow followup: is dealing with a political rival in any matter one sees fit an "official act"?
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The answer depends on which political party the president in question belongs to, of course!
 
bignickel said:
Question for those of us watching at home: is interfering with aid sent to the Ukraine until they dig up dirt on a political rival's family an "official act"?

Followup: is asking a Georgia state official to 'come up with more votes' to subvert the will of Georgian voters an "official act"?

Follow followup: is dealing with a political rival in any matter one sees fit an "official act"?
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On your first question, congress impeached the fat guy for doing that.
 
bignickel said:
Question for those of us watching at home: is interfering with aid sent to the Ukraine until they dig up dirt on a political rival's family an "official act"?

Followup: is asking a Georgia state official to 'come up with more votes' to subvert the will of Georgian voters an "official act"?

Follow followup: is dealing with a political rival in any matter one sees fit an "official act"?
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MAGA says yes. So do Ginny and Martha.

Seen elsewhere:
RIP USA 1776 to 2024.

That's a pretty good run.
 
azazal said:
But that was before this ruling. If he did it again, well just like last time, nothing happens.
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To be clear: impeachment is still different than criminal liability. You can still impeach the President for wrongdoing in office. But that is a political remedy subject to the same political vicissitudes as were in force during previous impeachments.
 
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