What would you consider a major "culture war" battleground?

[bruto]

No, I'm really implying that the progressives decide which cultural aspects or artifacts or institutions need to be changed or eliminated and the conservatives decide which of those they care to defend.

But you're also implying that this is arbitrary or simply political, and that the decision has little to do with the fundamental issues of what is right and wrong.

Even "gay rights" is a bit vague for my purposes here. There were a number of specific gay rights campaigns, such as the campaign for marriage equality and the campaign to replace DADT with open service in the military. Today those battles are over (progressives won) and we've moved on to new LGBT-related battlefields.

But the fundamental issues remain. My point about Roe V. Wade having stood for 50 years was that the fact that a thing has long been established does not in any way guarantee that it has left the mind of right wingers who will undo it if they can.

On any given issue, there will be some conservatives who defend the status quo and other who'd prefer to go back to 1963 or even 1863.

You may not remember when progressives started agitating for the idea that women ought to control their own reproductive capacities, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen in living memory.

Once again, your implication here is that this is just a value free political issue. What does living memory have to do with it? Sure, I was barely adolescent when the Supreme Court heard and judged on the legality of birth control in Connecticut. Does that mean that it should still be an active battlefront in the culture wars until the last person who was alive then dies? Because like it or not, it goddamned well is, and whether you take them seriously or not, there are people in positions of influence and power who would undo that decision readily if they can.

Would you care to make a prediction about whether those cases will once again become cultural battlegrounds in the near term?

I did. They already are. Our current presumptive R. nominee for the presidency cannot and will not commit to any principle, or condemn any extreme act of repression, violence or regression, because, like too many centrists, he considers them all negotiable political positions. Many on the left have attacked the Democrats for having made the mistake of not considering Roe V. Wade thus, and being unprepared for the attack. People in positions of power and influence are telling us point blank and if I were a centrist in the issue I think I'd be busy rehearsing the "who would have thought it" apology when what we thought were our rights are corrupted by idiots who think Cain and Abel rode dinosaurs to school, and The Handmaid's Tale is a handbook.

Just an added remark: There are people right now, in positions of authority, who want to control whether a woman should be allowed to cross state lines when she is pregnant. This is not abstract. What will prevent this from happening has nothing to do with the degree to which it is unconscionably stupid and repressive. What will prevent this from happening is that people, real people, act to stop it. So far this is happening, but the people who advocate it will do it if they can. The culture war is right here right now.

 

[d4m10n]

But you're also implying that this is arbitrary or simply political, and that the decision has little to do with the fundamental issues of what is right and wrong.

This thread is about which issues will prove to be highly salient in some given sociopolitical context, not who is right or wrong about those issues.

My point about Roe V. Wade having stood for 50 years was that the fact that a thing has long been established does not in any way guarantee that it has left the mind of right wingers who will undo it if they can.

Agreed; religious conservatives have been fighting against Roe since just before I was born. This is but one reason to expect it will remain a highly salient issue in the near term.

Once again, your implication here is that this is just a value free political issue.

I'm not here to discuss values in this thread but feel free to PM me if you make one about that.

What does living memory have to do with it?

The fact that it has been in contention that whole time tells us something about whether it will be settled any time soon.

Does that mean that it should still be an active battlefront in the culture wars until the last person who was alive then dies?

Again, I'm not here to make or refute should arguments, just to scope out what the likely battlefields will be.

Our current presumptive R. nominee for the presidency cannot and will not commit to any principle, or condemn any extreme act of repression, violence or regression, because, like too many centrists, he considers them all negotiable political positions.

This might give you some insight into the OP question but if so I'm unclear on how.

There are people right now, in positions of authority, who want to control whether a woman should be allowed to cross state lines when she is pregnant... The culture war is right here right now.

We've already agreed that abortion rights are one of the obvious answers to the OP; the state lines question is probably more political or juridical than cultural though.

 

[bruto]

This thread is about which issues will prove to be highly salient in some given sociopolitical context, not who is right or wrong about those issues.

Agreed; religious conservatives have been fighting against Roe since just before I was born. This is but one reason to expect it will remain a highly salient issue in the near term.

I'm not here to discuss values in this thread but feel free to PM me if you make one about that.

The fact that it has been in contention that whole time tells us something about whether it will be settled any time soon.

Again, I'm not here to make or refute should arguments, just to scope out what the likely battlefields will be.

This might give you some insight into the OP question but if so I'm unclear on how.

We've already agreed that abortion rights are one of the obvious answers to the OP; the state lines question is probably more political or juridical than cultural though.

Point taken on the moral issue, though I think your initial response about substituting "progressive" for "religious" implies it. But, leaving that as a communication error, I think that it's a mistake to parse the culture war too much. There is a question of which sub issues will lead the charge but they're all part of it, and we've seen enough of what happens that we should not be surprised if some big conspicuous issue gets all the attention while smaller ones sneak in while our attention is elsewhere. While the state lines issue may be more juridical in the sense of implementation, it's entirely cultural in its purposes and intents, a subset of the anti-abortion stance.

 

[d4m10n]

Education
Excessive wealth
Healthcare
Migration
Unions
Two Tier legal system

The secret of "culture war issue" is that you have some people asking for change, reactionaries with lots of access and resources pushing extremely hard against, and the vast majority being fine with the change but made to feel like it's wrong.

What is the change ask re: wealth? I'd assume maybe a large and redistributive wealth tax but OTOH why assume.

 

[d4m10n]

While the state lines issue may be more juridical in the sense of implementation, it's entirely cultural in its purposes and intents, a subset of the anti-abortion stance.

I tend to agree with the folks who say "politics is downstream of culture," at least in most cases. The cultural question around abortion is fairly simple: Shall women be given control over their own bodies in the event they are gestating a new body? The political details get complicated, of course; even once you answer the cultural question you are still left with whether your solution should be propagated by courts or by legislatures and whether those should be at the federal or state level.

 

[Hercules56]

Critical Social Justice ideology, which explains:

• DEI
• Gender ideology
• Support for Hamas terrorists Palestine over Israel
• And more

FTFY.

 

[arthwollipot]

Oh, this'll go well.

 

[bruto]

I tend to agree with the folks who say "politics is downstream of culture," at least in most cases. The cultural question around abortion is fairly simple: Shall women be given control over their own bodies in the event they are gestating a new body? The political details get complicated, of course; even once you answer the cultural question you are still left with whether your solution should be propagated by courts or by legislatures and whether those should be at the federal or state level.

But if you take seriously the rhetoric of many of the leaders of the anti-abortion movement, you will realize that you're mistaken.

At least in some isolated cases, the opponents of abortion have made it impossible for a person pregnant with a DEAD fetus to have an abortion. There are politicians who seriously want to outlaw the termination of tubal pregnancies, owing to their obstinate and implacable ignorance. A simple question it might be, but if it regards a complicated issue, it's a bad one.

One of the issues being discussed right now is the question of the intrauterine device. That is emphatically NOT an issue of who owns a woman's body when she's gestating, but who owns it BEFORE she is gestating, based on the wacky premise that a fertilized ovum is a human being and is therefore not only entitled to stay living, but entitled to a hospitable uterine environment, prepared to be so BEFORE gestation occurs. Forbidding IUD's, which is high on some conservative agendas, is absolutely and unequivocally a declaration that the state owns a woman's body whether or not she is gestating, and that she should not be permitted to modify her uterine environment, whatever her age, whether or not she subsequently has sex, or in fact whether she is otherwise fertile.

Now we can say and hope this nonsense will never occur, but there certainly are insanely stupid people out there who want it to,and some of them are in power. It was insanely stupid for the Alabama Supreme Court to declare an embryo a human being with civil rights from the moment of conception too, but it happened.

And of course, there's the ongoing issue of birth control itself, which is unequivocally a religious one, based on religious questions of what sex is for and about.

I think some issues are binary. There is no center.

 

[3point14]

Taxing the rich.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

There is a fundamental problem with Capitalism that makes capital accumulation easier and faster the more capital you have.
This is just a built-in feature.
It's bad enough that Compound Interest benefits from more wealth, but it's massively excassabated by the wealthy also getting more interest on their wealth.

If you want to preserve Capitalism, a progressive tax is absolutely necessary.

This is a complete no-brainer if you think about it for a second, which is why it is so essential to keep people distracted with manufactured culture war issues.

 

[d4m10n]

One of the issues being discussed right now is the question of the intrauterine device. That is emphatically NOT an issue of who owns a woman's body when she's gestating, but who owns it BEFORE she is gestating, based on the wacky premise that a fertilized ovum is a human being and is therefore not only entitled to stay living, but entitled to a hospitable uterine environment, prepared to be so BEFORE gestation occurs.

Clinically speaking, first day of a person's last menstrual period (LMP) is considered the first day of pregnancy.

And of course, there's the ongoing issue of birth control itself, which is unequivocally a religious one, based on religious questions of what sex is for and about.

Do you expect birth control will once again become a major culture war battleground?

I think some issues are binary. There is no center.

Well that's obviously wrong here; Roe was a centrist compromise, carving up pregnancy into trimesters and giving the state more and more influence later in the process. The extreme positions of total individual control (NARAL) and life begins at conception (SBC) were both thwarted.

 

[bruto]

Clinically speaking, first day of a person's last menstrual period (LMP) is considered the first day of pregnancy.

What? That may be how those known to be pregnant are timed, but that is preposterously ridiculous, as it implies that a virgin is pregnant every month! It has nothing to do with the fact that a person getting an IUD is emphatically not pregnant, and may or may not ever be hostess to a fertilized ovum.

Do you expect birth control will once again become a major culture war battleground?

Major maybe not, but it already is.

Well that's obviously wrong here; Roe was a centrist compromise, carving up pregnancy into trimesters and giving the state more and more influence later in the process. The extreme positions of total individual control (NARAL) and life begins at conception (SBC) were both thwarted.

Was. Roe does not now exist. The extreme SBC condition is no longer thwarted. The center is not holding.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Are you asking for specific issues in the culture wars?

If so, here are a few off the top of my head:

- Should LGBT issues be taught in schools? Which ones and at what age?

- Immigration: how much and under what conditions? What about illegal immigrants?

- DEI hiring practices and affirmative action (good or bad?)

- Broken windows policing and other related policing issues

- Harm reduction approaches and drug legalization

ETA: maybe abortion and gun rights would count as culture war issues as well

So nonsensical bovine excrement peddled by the reich wing then. No surprise there.

 

[Myriad]

There is a fundamental problem with Capitalism that makes capital accumulation easier and faster the more capital you have.
This is just a built-in feature.
It's bad enough that Compound Interest benefits from more wealth, but it's massively excassabated by the wealthy also getting more interest on their wealth.

If you want to preserve Capitalism, a progressive tax is absolutely necessary.

This is a complete no-brainer if you think about it for a second, which is why it is so essential to keep people distracted with manufactured culture war issues.

I'm inclined to agree with this assessment (apart from the spelling of "excassabated"). Is anyone curious to hear about how "culture war issues" are perceived in the minimum wage workplace? (Nah, I didn't think so.)

 

[ponderingturtle]

How good was slavery for the slaves.

 

[d4m10n]

Major maybe not, but it already is.

I'll go on record as noping this one; no state will pass legislation designed to roll back Griswold or Eisenstadt nor will the cultural movement to make this happen gain traction outside of KofC meetups.

The extreme SBC condition is no longer thwarted. The center is not holding.

In red states the law is trending towards the SBC & RC's extreme position, but it seems hasty to generalize from there to all 50. It's at least conceivable that the blue states might trend toward the NARAL position now that Roe has been struck down.

 

[d4m10n]

So nonsensical bovine excrement peddled by the reich wing...

That's a rather odd characterization of "Harm reduction approaches and drug legalization."

 

[d4m10n]

How good was slavery for the slaves.

Timely if nonsensical.

 

[d4m10n]

Here's one with a lot of potential to spread nationwide across flyover country:

Louisiana Requires Ten Commandments to Be Displayed in Every Public Classroom

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/19/...ts-classrooms.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

 

[Trausti]

Here's one with a lot of potential to spread nationwide across flyover country:

Louisiana Requires Ten Commandments to Be Displayed in Every Public Classroom

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/19/...ts-classrooms.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

This feels like a setup.