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History Possibly Lost.

Crazy Chainsaw

Philosopher
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
8,339
Was a Letter from Thomas and Abraham Lincoln lost because of a flawed expert opinion?

At my last Family reunion I saw my Great Great Great Grandfather's Bible, and a letter that was supposed to be from Thomas Lincoln too him, this was in 1987-1988. It was written on back of a Map Drawn by him of Pates Station in Patesville Kentucky, to Taylor's ferry on the Ohio River. This was in 1816, when Lincoln Stayed at Pates Station to rest his Oxen who had an Injury too it's front hoof and had to have the hoof trimmed, and rested.
Lincoln Stayed in the Barn near the Blacksmithshop not in the Tavern. the letter was just a thank you note for the Reverend saying a Prayer for Lincoln, and his Family including his young son Abraham, and for drawing the map, and Gifting to Lincoln a Box of Nails that my Ansestor had Cut intending too use them to build his first barn on the old Family farm.
An Expert on Lincoln in Illinois was shown the letter and he said there was no proof Lincoln Stopped at Pates Station in 1816, and although the Thomas Lincoln Signature looked Real, and My Ansestor's penmanship was authentic, the letter was probably just a fake, drawn on an old Map after Lincoln's death.
He concluded that because the Note the 9 year old Abraham Lincoln wrote to My Great Great Grandfather encouraging him to Write Young Abraham was printed not Cursive, and thus most likely a fake.
I was wondering since my Great Great Grandfather would have been 5 years old at the Time would Abraham Lincoln have printed that part, because my Great Great Grandfather couldn't read Cursive?
Could a historical document have been lost just because of one experts opinion?
The Bible and the Letter are probably gone now, Lost to history, I haven't heard from that side of the family in decades.
 
Probably not.

Why not?

"~PATESVILLE (Hancock Co.): lrats/vihi] (Cloverport). A thriving trade
and service center for area farm families in the late 19th century
that declined to but a: crossroads settlement~n KY, 144, 7~ air miles
s' of Hawesville, when improved roads'attracted people to the
larger county towns. It was named for its founder,Wm. Minor Pate
(1775-1853) who, by 1803, had established an .inn he called Pate~ StatiO)
at which the Lincolns are said to have stopped on their,way to Indian
in 1816. Postal service initiated by,' " , ~.! Pate on-Dct.lSl, 1812
ended in late 1966 with papers transferred 'to Pellville, 6 road miles
wsw. ~illie Pulliam, "Patesville: Once a Way Station ••.. " HANCOCK
CLARION, 7th anni. ed. 7/1968, n.p. and Ibid. "Fatesville Post Office"

Lincoln is Known to have Traveled down the Hardinsburg Yellowbanks Road, the only Road west in Kentucky in 1816.
The only Question is did he cross at the Taylor's Ferry, or with a home made Raft at Clover Creek?
 
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No evidence other than "I seem to recall from decades ago", for a start. The rest is idle speculation, coupled with being virtually unparsable as written.

And a centuries old family heirloom was lost to history in the last few years? No, no one likely put it out for recycling by mistake. If it was real, it's probably still around. If it's around, it could be analyzed for authenticity again. If not, it's all just a fruitless ride on the imagination train.
 
No evidence other than "I seem to recall from decades ago", for a start. The rest is idle speculation, coupled with being virtually unparsable as written.

And a centuries old family heirloom was lost to history in the last few years? No, no one likely put it out for recycling by mistake. If it was real, it's probably still around. If it's around, it could be analyzed for authenticity again. If not, it's all just a fruitless ride on the imagination train.

The thing Is I don't know where it is, that side of the Family can't be found I don't know if the Kept it or not after the offered to donate it to the Lincoln Museum in Illinois, and it was Rejected, based on one experts Opinion back in the Early 70s.how could I possibly find it?
 
The thing Is I don't know where it is, that side of the Family can't be found I don't know if the Kept it or not after the offered to donate it to the Lincoln Museum in Illinois, and it was Rejected, based on one experts Opinion back in the Early 70s.how could I possibly find it?

Which puts us back in the same place we started. You either have the evidence, or are just making up possible scenarios based on decades old recollections. Memories from decades long past, I've been told, are some of the least reliable source of sound data.
 
The thing Is I don't know where it is, that side of the Family can't be found I don't know if the Kept it or not after the offered to donate it to the Lincoln Museum in Illinois, and it was Rejected, based on one experts Opinion back in the Early 70s.how could I possibly find it?

If you can't possibly find it, then why are you speculating about it here?

My hypothesis is that your relative was hoping to manufacture some notoriety by being Lincoln-adjacent, and attempted to pass off a forged document for that purpose.

Since the whole matter opened and closed half a century ago, and you have nothing to show for it, and will always have nothing to show for it, you should probably just put it out of your mind.
 
An actual expert, who physically examined the document, concluded it was not genuine. Are a bunch of random internet posters who can't even see the damned thing supposed to arrive at a better conclusion?
 
I have two old carving chisels from about the 1840 - 1880 time frame easily identified by makers marks. I live in a town with five big churches that have elaborate carved side alters and the wood carving behind the alter in four of them.

How can I connect my two common carpenter tools to the beautiful and extensive work done in those churches ?

I seem to be missing the important details of who did the work, when and what tools they actually had.

Much as this Lincoln letter and the bible cannot be located by you at the moment. That's a big detail.
A claim that my old tools made that art rings as empty as yours to the letter.
 
The Bible and the Letter are probably gone now, Lost to history, I haven't heard from that side of the family in decades.

Not lost to history, just lost to you. Someone in the family probably still has them.

Talk to your family if it’s that important to you.
 
Was a Letter from Thomas and Abraham Lincoln lost because of a flawed expert opinion?

At my last Family reunion I saw my Great Great Great Grandfather's Bible, and a letter that was supposed to be from Thomas Lincoln too him, this was in 1987-1988. It was written on back of a Map Drawn by him of Pates Station in Patesville Kentucky, to Taylor's ferry on the Ohio River. This was in 1816, when Lincoln Stayed at Pates Station to rest his Oxen who had an Injury too it's front hoof and had to have the hoof trimmed, and rested.
Lincoln Stayed in the Barn near the Blacksmithshop not in the Tavern. the letter was just a thank you note for the Reverend saying a Prayer for Lincoln, and his Family including his young son Abraham, and for drawing the map, and Gifting to Lincoln a Box of Nails that my Ansestor had Cut intending too use them to build his first barn on the old Family farm.
An Expert on Lincoln in Illinois was shown the letter and he said there was no proof Lincoln Stopped at Pates Station in 1816, and although the Thomas Lincoln Signature looked Real, and My Ansestor's penmanship was authentic, the letter was probably just a fake, drawn on an old Map after Lincoln's death.
He concluded that because the Note the 9 year old Abraham Lincoln wrote to My Great Great Grandfather encouraging him to Write Young Abraham was printed not Cursive, and thus most likely a fake.
I was wondering since my Great Great Grandfather would have been 5 years old at the Time would Abraham Lincoln have printed that part, because my Great Great Grandfather couldn't read Cursive?
Could a historical document have been lost just because of one experts opinion?
The Bible and the Letter are probably gone now, Lost to history, I haven't heard from that side of the family in decades.

I'd recommend looking up the local newspaper archives for around about that date to see whether it was reported at the time - a lot of them are on line these days, or make a journey to the archives by foot as not everything has been microfiched and catalogued. Sounds authentic enough to me.
 
I'd recommend looking up the local newspaper archives for around about that date to see whether it was reported at the time - a lot of them are on line these days, or make a journey to the archives by foot as not everything has been microfiched and catalogued. Sounds authentic enough to me.

You'd think this was a sound recommendation, and usually it would be, but prior interactions with Crazy Chainsaw have shown that he is preturnaturally unlucky with these institutions.

This is very unfortunate when one is trying to establish whether or not a family tradition has any basis in fact.

Any evidence one way or another is 'lost'. Which is so 'unfortunate'.

I get it, no-one wants to call Great Gramma or Gramps a fantasist.

Maybe this did happen, but so far, evidence: there is none.
 
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The thing Is I don't know where it is, that side of the Family can't be found I don't know if the Kept it or not after the offered to donate it to the Lincoln Museum in Illinois, and it was Rejected, based on one experts Opinion back in the Early 70s.how could I possibly find it?
Perhaps it was lent to Quentin Tarantino to use as a prop in one of his movies?
 
The thing Is I don't know where it is, that side of the Family can't be found I don't know if the Kept it or not after the offered to donate it to the Lincoln Museum in Illinois, and it was Rejected, based on one experts Opinion back in the Early 70s.how could I possibly find it?

Perhaps it was lent to Quentin Tarantino to use as a prop in one of his movies?

Perhaps they don't want to be found?

Perhaps they jealously guard the cosmic secrets encoded in this fabled document, lest their lesser 'relatives' gain true, universal sentience, and thus the secret of unlimited rice pudding?

Perhaps they returned to their home planet?

[DorisDayMode]Perhaps... Perhaps... Perhaps.[/DorisDayMode]


I have no idea. Nor do you. All you have is an unevidenced, unsupported claim of a purported family story, and your baseless suspicions based on the assumption that that is true.
 
An actual expert, who physically examined the document, concluded it was not genuine. Are a bunch of random internet posters who can't even see the damned thing supposed to arrive at a better conclusion?

Experts can and have been proven wrong the Same Expert said two known Lincoln Forgeries were real. An opinion is just an Opinion.
 
I'd recommend looking up the local newspaper archives for around about that date to see whether it was reported at the time - a lot of them are on line these days, or make a journey to the archives by foot as not everything has been microfiched and catalogued. Sounds authentic enough to me.

The News Paper doesn't even know where Patss Station was Located I found it based on the old Map, and what my family told me.
None of the stories about Pate Station survived, because the Breakridge County Court house was burned durring the Civil War, and the News Paper at the Time was located next door.
 
Experts can and have been proven wrong the Same Expert said two known Lincoln Forgeries were real. An opinion is just an Opinion.

Yes, they can be wrong. But since you don't even have the letter or Bible any more, what difference does it make? How are we supposed to come up with anything?
 
Yes, they can be wrong. But since you don't even have the letter or Bible any more, what difference does it make? How are we supposed to come up with anything?

I didn't Inherit it, so can I be blamed my Grand Father wasn't the first born son?
 

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