Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire IV

[catsmate]

Oh, is that why I couldn't see the zebra?

Stripy wallpaper? They're cunning buggers....

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Stripy wallpaper? They're cunning buggers....

They hide on crossings. That's how they got the name.

 

[JayUtah]

Your own examples undermine your argument...

As does reality, categorically. It's customary to issue preliminary and interim reports, especially if an investigation is publicly funded. Vixen has built up a mystique around the "final report" of an investigative body that simply has no basis in reality. And it's clear why: she needs the fairy-tale image of a secretive body hashing things out in private, smoke-filled backrooms so that she can later come back and attach all sorts of nefarious motives to it, and dismiss the final report as a foisted whitewash. Heaven forbid the investigators should be transparent and publicly engaged—it wrecks the image she has of herself as a diligent, skilled seeker after truth who is penetrating a veil of secrecy.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

she needs the fairy-tale image of a secretive body hashing things out in private, smoke-filled backrooms so that she can later come back and attach all sorts of nefarious motives to it, and dismiss the final report as a foisted whitewash.

What colour smoke?

 

[catsmate]

Yes, one of the hallmarks of Piaget's theory (which Vixen used to disparage other members) is the transition into the concrete operational stage where they decentre and realise that people see the world in different ways. Ironically Vixen does not demonstrate that in this thread.

I've having flashbacks to proofreading my sister's thesis...

 

[Darat]

I've been too involved as a member in the thread to want to have to enter it to do some moderation but we are a tad light in regard to disinterested Danish moderators so let me remind folk about Rule 12 and Rule 11 and I'll try to find a non-posting-as-a-member mod to clean up the thread.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[Craig4]

It was claimed that the flames beneath the car (as one would get in an L-ion fire) was due to leaked fuel/other fluid. So where is the leak showing on the ground. Thermal suggested it was spraying out sideways through a pinhole but there was no impediment to the fluid spraying out from beneath the car.

The point about the zebra is do you believe what you see or do you experience cognitive dissonance and choose to believe an anonymous, unsigned unauthored update titled 'press release' telling you it is a different animal completely? That is the point being made. I cannot get a straight answer.

Perhaps you can supply one?

Why do you think it's okay to slander people like this?

 

[Mojo]

I cannot get a straight answer.

Who have you asked?

 

[JesseCuster]

The point about the zebra is do you believe what you see or do you experience cognitive dissonance and choose to believe an anonymous, unsigned unauthored update titled 'press release' telling you it is a different animal completely? That is the point being made. I cannot get a straight answer.

Some of us are capable of looking at a horse and recognising it's a horse.

For example, I'm capable of reading a press statement by Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Department, released a couple of days after the Luton car park fire, which states in plain English that the vehicle that caused the fire was believed to be a diesel car, pending further investigation.

That's a picture of a horse.

You have taken that very obvious horse and painted huge stupid stripes on it and have declared it an obvious zebra, because in your fevered imagination it has turned into a public relations puff piece written by Jenny from communications (and/or a government junior minister and possibly filtered through government lawyers), released on day zero, which is simultaneously vague and non-committal about vehicle zero while being suspiciously insistent that it's a diesel car.

Vixen, we're all looking at a photo of an obvious horse (the BFRD press release) that you have drawn stripes on, drawn a silly cartoon hat on, and now you're stomping your feet because people don't agree that your childish doodlings on a photo of a horse have turned it into a photo of a zebra.

Seriously Vixen, you've concocted all sorts of stupid evidence-free fantasies about this pedestrian press release, involving Jenny from communications, anti-EV trolling, junior ministers, government lawyers, etc. and we're all expected to take your word for it, because you have merely repeated over and over that you have a magical ability that the rest of us don't, to determine that it's obviously public relations speak that actually says something else than what it really says.

You're not fooling anyone Vixen. The BFRD press release is a horse, not a zebra, and you've no evidence that it is, you're just stomping your feet and insisting that it's very obviously a zebra because you've drawn stripes on it with a sharpie.

Also, yesterday at work I melted some steel by applying a welding tool to it. Do you believe that Vixen?

 

[Vixen]

Who have you asked?

I put in a Freedom of Information request to Beds Fire and Rescue Service asking for make, model and year of the initial vehicle involved in the fire. I had this reply by return:

Dear Kris



Further to your request for information relating to the fire at London Luton Airport car park on 10 October 2023, an update has been published on our website. This can be found at the following link: Fire at airport car park started accidentally | Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service (bedsfire.gov.uk) or by going to the News page on our website - www.bedsfire.gov.uk



If you still wish to make a Freedom of Information request please submit via our online portal - Requests for Information | Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service (bedsfire.gov.uk)

Before submitting a request, please take a look at the disclosure logs page to check if the information you are looking for has already been requested. Click on ‘Freedom of Information Requests’ on the left of the screen to see a list of recent requests.

Once we receive your request via the online portal, it will be actioned in accordance with the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

Kind regards



Governance Team

Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service

Southfields Road

Kempston

Bedford MK42 7NR

I have now followed it up with another FOI request as advised above. No reply by return this time. So I wonder if the guys in the office actually even know what the exact vehicle was or whether the information is as a matter of fact 'confidential', i.e., withheld, as I said. I will let you know when I get a response to my further request.

 

[zooterkin]

I put in a Freedom of Information request to Beds Fire and Rescue Service asking for make, model and year of the initial vehicle involved in the fire. I had this reply by return:



I have now followed it up with another FOI request as advised above. No reply by return this time. So I wonder if the guys in the office actually even know what the exact vehicle was or whether the information is as a matter of fact 'confidential', i.e., withheld, as I said. I will let you know when I get a response to my further request.

So, you've had it confirmed that the information on the website is authoritative, and that therefore the car was a diesel and not an EV or hybrid, will you believe it now?

 

[Steve]

I put in a Freedom of Information request to Beds Fire and Rescue Service asking for make, model and year of the initial vehicle involved in the fire. I had this reply by return:



I have now followed it up with another FOI request as advised above. No reply by return this time. So I wonder if the guys in the office actually even know what the exact vehicle was or whether the information is as a matter of fact 'confidential', i.e., withheld, as I said. I will let you know when I get a response to my further request.

"the guys in the office"? Still thinking pretending good ol' Jeremy is writing things off the cuff without bothering to get confirmation from anyone actually involved in the investigation . The conspiracy fantasies have a vice grip here methinks.

 

[SteveAitch]

So, you've had it confirmed that the information on the website is authoritative, and that therefore the car was a diesel and not an EV or hybrid, will you believe it now?

Not until she runs out of questions for FOI requests, gets the vehicle's VIN, notarised affidavits from all the workers who assembled the vehicle (or worked on it afterwards) stating that it was a diesel vehicle and and confirmation from the Lord Chancellor.

 

[JayUtah]

I have now followed it up with another FOI request as advised above. No reply by return this time. So I wonder if the guys in the office...

You misspelled "competent authority."

It has now been confirmed to you that the information on the website that you're so desperate to disregard is considered by competent authority to be both official and responsive to your request. No more of this "Jenny in communications" fairy tale.

...actually even know what the exact vehicle was or whether the information is as a matter of fact 'confidential', i.e., withheld, as I said.

"But it's not a conspiracy theory!"

You have the cart before the horse now. For purposes of your claim that an EV caused the Luton fire, the make and model of the vehicle was ever only a proxy for that information. The information you need—the fact that the initial vehicle was a diesel—has now been confirmed. It doesn't matter what the make and model of the vehicle is, because we know now that we can rely on the information that everyone except you has been relying upon: whatever that information turns out to be, it will refer to a diesel-powered vehicle, which ends this discussion.

Your ongoing fixation on this now-irrelevant information serves only to further you conspiracy-mongering.

 

[LondonJohn]

I put in a Freedom of Information request to Beds Fire and Rescue Service asking for make, model and year of the initial vehicle involved in the fire. I had this reply by return:



I have now followed it up with another FOI request as advised above. No reply by return this time. So I wonder if the guys in the office actually even know what the exact vehicle was or whether the information is as a matter of fact 'confidential', i.e., withheld, as I said. I will let you know when I get a response to my further request.

LOL "Kris"

So now you've had it confirmed to you that the latest press release is indeed the official position of BF&RS - and that therefore the official position is indeed that Car Zero was an ordinary diesel ICE vehicle, and not an EV of any sort whatsoever.

But yeah, keep it up with your ludicrous "embargo" conspiracy theories - they're good for a laugh for the people here who actually know what they're talking about.

 

[LondonJohn]

You misspelled "competent authority."

It has now been confirmed to you that the information on the website that you're so desperate to disregard is considered by competent authority to be both official and responsive to your request. No more of this "Jenny in communications" fairy tale.



"But it's not a conspiracy theory!"

You have the cart before the horse now. For purposes of your claim that an EV caused the Luton fire, the make and model of the vehicle was ever only a proxy for that information. The information you need—the fact that the initial vehicle was a diesel—has now been confirmed. It doesn't matter what the make and model of the vehicle is, because we know now that we can rely on the information that everyone except you has been relying upon: whatever that information turns out to be, it will refer to a diesel-powered vehicle, which ends this discussion.

Your ongoing fixation on this now-irrelevant information serves only to further you conspiracy-mongering.

In my observation, conspiracy theorists find it near impossible to stop conspiracy-theorising.......

 

[junkshop]

I put in a Freedom of Information request to Beds Fire and Rescue Service asking for make, model and year of the initial vehicle involved in the fire. I had this reply by return:



I have now followed it up with another FOI request as advised above. No reply by return this time. So I wonder if the guys in the office actually even know what the exact vehicle was or whether the information is as a matter of fact 'confidential', i.e., withheld, as I said. I will let you know when I get a response to my further request.

Did you (as they suggested) look at the disclosure logs? Being the dilligent researcher that you are, I'm sure you did, and will have seen the response given to all the other people requesting the same information

Following the fire at London Luton Airport terminal car park 2 on the 10 October 2023, a multi-agency investigation is currently being conducted. At this time, we can confirm the vehicle involved was a diesel-powered vehicle. To further clarify it was neither a fully electric vehicle (EV), a mild hybrid electric vehicle (MHEV) nor a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV). More information on the incident and cause of the fire will be released once the investigation has been concluded.

What makes you think you'll get a different answer?

 

[LondonJohn]

Did you (as they suggested) look at the disclosure logs? Being the dilligent researcher that you are, I'm sure you did, and will have seen the response given to all the other people requesting the same information




What makes you think you'll get a different answer?

Because conspiracy theorists gotta conspiracy-theorise!

It's both pitiful and amusing to observe though.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I have full confidence that the 'guys in the office' at BF&RS have a record of the make, model, year, registration number and colour of every vehicle involved in every fire they have ever attended.

Anything less would be suspicious, don't you think?

 

[JayUtah]

...colour of every vehicle involved in every fire...

Black.