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NZ Politics, the Luxon Era

A few years ago Scott Morrison caved in to a suggestion by Jacinta not to deport NZ criminals after their sentences were completed. And the predictable happened. These career criminals continued offending, including murder. So Australia is changing the ruling.

Winston Peters sounds upset. Showing conclusively that it is a correct decision.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/winst...-soon-as-possible/CEJLQL2R7VBFPNGOH3IEMTHP4E/
 
lionking said:
A few years ago Scott Morrison caved in to a suggestion by Jacinta not to deport NZ criminals after their sentences were completed. And the predictable happened. These career criminals continued offending, including murder. So Australia is changing the ruling.

Winston Peters sounds upset. Showing conclusively that it is a correct decision.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/winst...-soon-as-possible/CEJLQL2R7VBFPNGOH3IEMTHP4E/
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I agree with Australia deporting these people. It is legal, and a clear deterrent, and acting on behalf of its citizens, as elected to do.
It has caused huge damage in New Zealand, harm that Australia has avoided. There are effectively no Australian born criminals in New Zealand judging by their complete absence from the news.
Is there any sympathy from Australians for New Zealand's position?
 
lionking said:
A few years ago Scott Morrison caved in to a suggestion by Jacinta not to deport NZ criminals after their sentences were completed. And the predictable happened. These career criminals continued offending, including murder. So Australia is changing the ruling.

Winston Peters sounds upset. Showing conclusively that it is a correct decision.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/winst...-soon-as-possible/CEJLQL2R7VBFPNGOH3IEMTHP4E/
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I actually agree with Australia's stance to a point... and we should be doing the same thing... a certain Australian born spree-shooter who killed 51 people in Christchurch in 2019 should be deported back to Australia so that their taxpayers can pay for his lifetime of incarceration instead of us. Why the **** should we have to pay for this ******* to be kept alive!

But I draw the line with people who were born in NZ, and were taken to Australia with their parents when they were infants. They grew up there, and learned their criminality in the environment of Australian society, so they should be Australia's problem. Its also grossly unfair to send them back to a country where they likely have no family or friends.
 
smartcooky said:
I actually agree with Australia's stance to a point... and we should be doing the same thing... a certain Australian born spree-shooter who killed 51 people in Christchurch in 2019 should be deported back to Australia so that their taxpayers can pay for his lifetime of incarceration instead of us. Why the **** should we have to pay for this ******* to be kept alive!

But I draw the line with people who were born in NZ, and were taken to Australia with their parents when they were infants. They grew up there, and learned their criminality in the environment of Australian society, so they should be Australia's problem. Its also grossly unfair to send them back to a country where they likely have no family or friends.
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Fitstly, I’m not aware of any nation which deports a criminal before they serve their sentence. So, yes, you have to pay for imprisonment of criminals regardless of where they are from.

And I absolutely reject your assumption that nature is entirely responsible for criminal activity. But that’s for another thread.

Finally, I’m not greatly concerned about being fair to murderers.
 
lionking said:
Fitstly, I’m not aware of any nation which deports a criminal before they serve their sentence.
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Nor am I, but since I never made such a claim.....

lionking said:
So, yes, you have to pay for imprisonment of criminals regardless of where they are from.
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Ummm, what?

lionking said:
And I absolutely reject your assumption that nature is entirely responsible for criminal activity. But that’s for another thread.
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Again, that is not a claim (or assumption) I made.

lionking said:
Finally, I’m not greatly concerned about being fair to murderers.
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Not all deportees from Australia are murderers, in fact, they make up a very small fraction.
 
lionking said:
Why are you saying the Christchurch killer should be deported to Australia to serve his term then?
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You said
lionking said:
Firstly, I’m not aware of any nation which deports a criminal before they serve their sentence.
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I said
smartcooky said:
..... a certain Australian born spree-shooter who killed 51 people in Christchurch in 2019 should be deported back to Australia so that their taxpayers can pay for his lifetime of incarceration instead of us..
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Exactly where in there is any claim that any other country "deports a criminal before they serve their sentence."?

I think we should allow ourselves the option to deport any and all foreign born criminals who were above the age of majority when they came to this country, back to their country of birth, whether they have finished serving their sentences or not, together with a ban on ever coming to this country again.
 
The Atheist said:
The best thing about it all is that it's going to create a back-lash against the clowns, now led by Rawiri Waititi.

He's come up with a genius plan, though - a completely separate system for Maori, including their own parliament!

Think how much money WINZ alone will save.
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What a great idea!

They could have their own police, and court system, their own prisons and their own welfare system, and they can levy taxes on their own voters to pay for it all. Oustanding! ;)
 
smartcooky said:
You said



I said



Exactly where in there is any claim that any other country "deports a criminal before they serve their sentence."?

I think we should allow ourselves the option to deport any and all foreign born criminals who were above the age of majority when they came to this country, back to their country of birth, whether they have finished serving their sentences or not, together with a ban on ever coming to this country again.
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You are just being ridiculous now. You have just admitted to doing exactly what I said you did. Advocating for deportation of a criminal to a country of origin before the sentence is completed. This simply will not happen and it’s a stupid proposition.
 
John Tamiheres speech from 2005 that W Peters put on X:

John Tamihere from 2005:

The rise of the Māori Party is unfortunate and frustrating. It is not Māori; Māori is a generic term. The group of people who have supported the rise of the Māori Party are actually tribal fundamentalists.”

“The problem with the Māori Party is that it is led by a bunch of people who have done extraordinarily well out of protest activism, so they can tell their children why they should vote against things, why they should march against things, and why they should dislike others.”

“It is quite clear. The Māori Party is built around new-age educationalists, reconstructionists in terms of history, and the academics and the new elite around the Treaty of Waitangi chequebooks. There is no case and no space in this country for separatists. I am very proud of my Ngāti Porou tānga—very proud of that tribal background. We do not ram it down other people’s throats, but we are very proud of it. Our being proud of it does not mean to say that we can coerce others into our way of thinking. We have to acknowledge that this is a great land of diversity, difference, and opportunity.”

“The days when people could stand up and scream “treaty” and believe that they would get special rights have gone.”

https://x.com/winstonpeters/status/1796043095127347636?t=IFsDt9VB5BWtQv343AX0zw&s=19
 
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smartcooky said:
I honestly cannot understand why any Doctor or Nurse in this country would want to stay here given the crappy pay and conditions.
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I had my 6 monthly medical checkup today and got a trainee doctor who said he hopes to get a job here once he has finished his internship. He didn't say anything about 'crappy pay and conditions', but he did tell me there is a shortage of GPs which is resulting in thousands of people not getting proper treatment.

I reckon the medical school must have brainwashed him. Too much idealism and not enough greedy capitalism!
 
lionking said:
You are just being ridiculous now. You have just admitted to doing exactly what I said you did. Advocating for deportation of a criminal to a country of origin before the sentence is completed. This simply will not happen and it’s a stupid proposition.
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No, it YOU who are being ridiculous! Do you understand English?

Yes, I DO advocate to have criminals deported when they are found guilty, and sentenced, and before they have served their sentence. I made that clear from the outset! . But that is NOT WHAT YOU QUESTIONED!!!
 
smartcooky said:
No, it YOU who are being ridiculous! Do you understand English?

Yes, I DO advocate to have criminals deported when they are found guilty, and sentenced, and before they have served their sentence. I made that clear from the outset! . But that is NOT WHAT YOU QUESTIONED!!!
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You are incredibly stubborn. You have asked Australia to do what no other country is doing. this is an idiotic proposition. Own it.
 
lionking said:
You are incredibly stubborn. You have asked Australia to do what no other country is doing. this is an idiotic proposition. Own it.
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We'll count that as another thing you claim I said, that I haven't

I have asked that MY OWN COUNTRY does something that no other country is doing.

And yes, I AM incredibly stubborn when I have been lied to, and when I know for a fact that I'm right. You LIED about what I said, and then doubled down on the lie when challenged on it.

Go back and re-read the exchange... you are wrong at every . single . point!
 
smartcooky said:
We'll count that as another thing you claim I said, that I haven't

I have asked that MY OWN COUNTRY does something that no other country is doing.

And yes, I AM incredibly stubborn when I have been lied to, and when I know for a fact that I'm right. You LIED about what I said, and then doubled down on the lie when challenged on it.

Go back and re-read the exchange... you are wrong at every . single . point!
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People can go back and read your posts. You proposed that the Christchurch killer be deported to Australia. Yes or no.
 
lionking said:
People can go back and read your posts. You proposed that the Christchurch killer be deported to Australia. Yes or no.
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YES! Unequivocally!! That is EXACTLY what I proposed... THAT NEW ZEALAND does something that no other country is doing, by deporting convicted criminals to serve their time in the country of their birth. This is the third time I have acknowledged this. I hope that in the Luxon Era - which is what this thread is about - that his government considers doing this. Why should we, as taxpayers, be paying the costs to incarcerate a ******* Australian terrorist and mass-murderer for the next 40 - 50 years.

But this is what YOU said "You have asked Australia to do what no other country is doing"


AUSTRALIA!!!! Did you read that - in your own post? Its what YOU said!

At this point, even you must have realized you have the two countries swapped around, but you are stubbornly digging your heels in and doubling down on your mistake, pretending no-one will notice

lionking said:
By the way, Australia will not be dictated to by Luxon.
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Stupid, stupid strawman. No-one has suggested that you should.
 
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Oh, and by the way...

Austria: https://www.politico.eu/article/austrias-plan-deport-convict-kosovo/

"The Austrian government wants to enable the transfer of convicted criminals from non-EU countries to serve their sentences in Kosovo."​

Warning, this is a PDF
UK: https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2024-0023/CDP-2024-0023.pdf

Foreign national offenders can be removed from the country before the end of their prison sentence by way of a prisoner transfer agreement, or through the Early Removal Scheme or Tariff-Expired Removal Scheme. ​
 
smartcooky said:
YES! Unequivocally!! That is EXACTLY what I proposed... THAT NEW ZEALAND does something that no other country is doing, by deporting convicted criminals to serve their time in the country of their birth. This is the third time I have acknowledged this. I hope that in the Luxon Era - which is what this thread is about - that his government considers doing this. Why should we, as taxpayers, be paying the costs to incarcerate a ******* Australian terrorist and mass-murderer for the next 40 - 50 years.

But this is what YOU said "You have asked Australia to do what no other country is doing"


AUSTRALIA!!!! Did you read that - in your own post? Its what YOU said!

At this point, even you must have realized you have the two countries swapped around, but you are stubbornly digging your heels in and doubling down on your mistake, pretending no-one will notice



Stupid, stupid strawman. No-one has suggested that you should.
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What a joke. You seem to live with the delusion that Australia would agree to your deportation proposal.

I await for your further proposals that Australia agrees insert crazy ideas just because you want them to.
 
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