Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

[Jack by the hedge]

... Yet, as you point out, she consistently makes blunders like "blind registry," which one would not expect from a trained accountant...

More curiously than making similar blunders, she repeatedly makes the same blunder. How many times have we had this "blind register" nonsense repeated, despite having it pointed out each time that it's not a real thing? And it's not just a case of having got the wrong terminology stuck in one's head. The concept is wrong. In context, it is clearly imagined to be a method of concealing your assets from legitimate scrutiny. What accountant would repeatedly make that mistake?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I'm reminded of a joke.

What do you call someone who came bottom of the class in medical school?

The defendant.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I'm reminded of a joke.

What do you call someone who came bottom of the class in medical school?

The defendant.

 

[Vixen]

Regardless, it would hurt Sunak's purported interests just as effectively as if there were evidence it was an EV. According to you, Sunak is all about ministerial overreach when it's about muzzling the press and telling them to lie for him. But he's powerless to stop some wonk on Twitter from blabbing equally potentially hurtful information.

It is well-known that X-Twitter under Elon Musk has become a cesspit of bots and misinformation merchants with blue ticks getting priority in the algorithms. So much so that it has lost 25% of its initial users before the takeover. Any time there is a major news item, expect an army of paid influencers, bots and shills to churn out fake videos, ID's and fake rumours. One upshot is that Musk is now appointing an army of ordinary users to counter these with 'community notes' (of which I am one), and such doctored and fabricated claims are countered by 'community notes'.

Sunak won't care about Twitter/X as he knows Murdoch - whom he meets at least five times a year - will always back him up and BBC automatically gives the government an easy ride.

 

[Vixen]

And you have evidence of that is likely to be a "clever dick from the pro-EV lobby" that created a deepfake video of a burning diesel car in order to "wind up the anti-EV lobby"?

I'm asking for actual evidence, not ad hoc evidence free speculation about anything.

Also, do you know what a deepfake is any why it's silly to think that someone would "deepfake" a video to supposedly show a license plate? Also, to fake a video so that someone would be able to reverse engineer the license plate number and look up the vehicle registration, etc. instead of just faking a video that shows a vehicle that's clearly of a make that isn't electric.

Also, why am I asking?

Er, the person who posted the video CLAIMS to be able to read the numberplate, although nobody else can.

https://x.com/sam35634560605/status/1712190548046450723

Note this guy has zero followers.

Feel free to point me to a reputable news outlet or broadcaster who has shared this - what should be a highly-sought-after - video.

 

[jimbob]

The earliest written usage Oxford English could find was J Ray in English Proverbs 1678 and I agree it is of a proverb type. IOW it was not a narrative exhorting people to work hard as in a modern day motivational tip.

Which was Agatha's point.

You were the one calling it a homily.

 

[Vixen]

Q) Why is it so important?
A) Because it was a diesel.
Q) Why the repeated statements that it was a diesel?
A) Despite the repeated statements of this fact there are kooks on the internet who insist it was something else.

That is because a Romanian lady who happened to be there, took a video of the back of the vehicle on her smart phone, and this was widely used in the national press and BBC et al as the possible offending vehicle.

This video came out AFTER Andrew Hopkinson of Beds Fire & Rescue Service saying it was believed to be a diesel as of this stage subject to verification.

The video LOOKS like a thermal runaway taking place, and not a fuel tank explosion, as suggested by the Romanian lady.

Simply repeating the same sentence by Mr. Hoskinson over and over, doesn't change its original meaning.

 

[Steve]

At this point, we only have Vixen's word for it that she ever was a 'advanced level accountant'- which means that it could be taken with a grain of salt, as she has already demonstrated repeatedly that taking anything she says could be 'misleading', and given the several basic failures to grasp even basic accountancy concepts... well...
But as many have already noted, even an advanced level of 'accountant training' gives no advantage when it comes to other areas (and indeed even make them make mistakes because of their beliefs about their area of expertise giving them sufficient ability to perform in other areas...)

Based on copious evidence across a number of threads in this forum I am dubious of any claim that Vixen makes. On any topic.

 

[Vixen]

So why claim that a 'jet of flame' (actual colour unknown because of the variability of the camera settings and display settings) could only be coming from a lithium battery pack?

When it could most certainly come from a diesel powered vehicle???

Which we KNOW from the Fire brigades websites release it most certainly was????

From a location where the fuel line is running???

I didn't say it could only be coming from a lithium battery pack, I said it very much looked like it.

In the diesel engine bay fire scenario caused by an electrical fault and exacerbated by a fuel leak in the power train, would the flames appear to project from the bottom of the vehicle? Or do the flames rise upwards, engulfing the bonnet (=hood), or even internally, in the car driver area, first, with thick clouds of black smoke?

As an example of a diesel vehicle fire, here's a clip of a Range Rover Discovery fire in Herne Bay circa September 2023.



https://youtu.be/ghB5Mm6BOHM?si=qqSjJR7KObLU4K2F

"DIESEL Range Rover Discovery Herne Bay Central Parade Pier Same Make & Model as Luton Airport Fire" [claims the uploader]

 

[Mojo]

Simply repeating the same sentence by Mr. Hoskinson over and over, doesn't change its original meaning.

It doesn't matter what he said at the press conference, we have a later press release from BFRS confirming that it was not an EV or any sort of hybrid.

 

[Mojo]

In the diesel engine bay fire scenario caused by an electrical fault and exacerbated by a fuel leak in the power train, would the flames appear to project from the bottom of the vehicle?

That would depend on where the fuel leak was.

 

[Vixen]

More curiously than making similar blunders, she repeatedly makes the same blunder. How many times have we had this "blind register" nonsense repeated, despite having it pointed out each time that it's not a real thing? And it's not just a case of having got the wrong terminology stuck in one's head. The concept is wrong. In context, it is clearly imagined to be a method of concealing your assets from legitimate scrutiny. What accountant would repeatedly make that mistake?

It is shorthand for being on the Ministerial Code Register of Minister's Interest as declaring your interests as being under a blind trust, meaning you don't have an conflict of interest because you have handed the affairs of your company to a third party steward. As this relationship is unsupervised and just the word of the minister it is no surprise members of the opposition party object to this designation for a Prime Minister who leads the law making, especially given that Sunak's company is registered in the Cayman Islands which is a notorious tax haven for people wanting top secrecy, as nobody can look up their financial affairs. Compare and contrast to the UK's Companies House where anyone can look up any company and all of their financial statements and list of directors.

Sunak could just as easily have declared his interests instead of hiding behind a blind registration.

 

[Disbelief]

That is because a Romanian lady who happened to be there, took a video of the back of the vehicle on her smart phone, and this was widely used in the national press and BBC et al as the possible offending vehicle.

This video came out AFTER Andrew Hopkinson of Beds Fire & Rescue Service saying it was believed to be a diesel as of this stage subject to verification.

The video LOOKS like a thermal runaway taking place, and not a fuel tank explosion, as suggested by the Romanian lady.

Simply repeating the same sentence by Mr. Hoskinson over and over, doesn't change its original meaning.

Bolding mine. You are the only one who keeps comparing this to a fuel tank explosion and no one is claiming this was a fuel tank explosion.

 

[Mojo]

It is shorthand for being on the Ministerial Code Register of Minister's Interest as declaring your interests as being under a blind trust, meaning you don't have an conflict of interest because you have handed the affairs of your company to a third party steward. As this relationship is unsupervised and just the word of the minister it is no surprise members of the opposition party object to this designation for a Prime Minister who leads the law making...

Who? References, please.

Sunak could just as easily have declared his interests instead of hiding behind a blind registration.

No, because if he knew what his investments were it could give rise to a conflict of interest "for a Prime Minister who leads the law making". You still don't seem to have grasped what the purpose of the blind trust is.

 

[Dabop]

I didn't say it could only be coming from a lithium battery pack, I said it very much looked like it.

In the diesel engine bay fire scenario caused by an electrical fault and exacerbated by a fuel leak in the power train, would the flames appear to project from the bottom of the vehicle? Or do the flames rise upwards, engulfing the bonnet (=hood), or even internally, in the car driver area, first, with thick clouds of black smoke?

As an example of a diesel vehicle fire, here's a clip of a Range Rover Discovery fire in Herne Bay circa September 2023.



https://youtu.be/ghB5Mm6BOHM?si=qqSjJR7KObLU4K2F

"DIESEL Range Rover Discovery Herne Bay Central Parade Pier Same Make & Model as Luton Airport Fire" [claims the uploader]

Hmm. if there was a pinhole leak, from the fuel line- WHICH RUNS ALONG THE BOTTOM OF THE CAR from front to back UNDER THE CAR and is a high pressure line under the car, not inside the car- and the resulting atomised fuel caught alight- would the resulting jet of fire rise straight up it the air, or jet sideways??? Would it engulf the interior first (how?- it is outside the vehicle) or would it start a spreading fire UNDER the vehicle

The more you talk, the more obvious it becomes (well as if that needed any more clarification) that your claimed expertise doesn't include even the basics of how a vehicle is laid out... (let alone modified)

The fuel line is separated from the passenger area- DELIBERATELY SO by design- by a sheet of metal (us forlock tugging serfs call it the floorpan) so that should a leak occur- the interior of the car is not soaked in a high pressure jet of fuel...

So 'should' a leak occur and catch fire, the fire is EXTERIOR to the passenger area, allowing the occupants time to escape from an ignited fire from a fuel line... by the time the interior heats up enough to ignite and start to emit clouds of black smoke, the fire is already well advanced...

Here's a simple experiment (repeat as many times as you like)- go look at the UNDERSIDE of a car or 4wd, and you will see running along the side of the 'chassis rails' (they are technically never a separate chassis in almost all modern vehicles but they still retain the name as they do the same job in a monocoque body shell) and you will find the rear brake lines- and the fuel lines...

They are NOT inside the cabin- for safety reasons...

So WHY would the interior of the cabin be emitting smoke???

 

[Mojo]

The more you talk, the more obvious it becomes (well as if that needed any more clarification) that your claimed expertise doesn't include even the basics of how a vehicle is laid out... (let alone modified)

To be fair, Vixen has explicitly stated that she does not have any expertise in this field:

As I know nothing about cars (my son recommended my current car)...

A believable claim!

 

[JayUtah]

It is well-known...

None of that twaddle fixes your argument. This is what happens when your argument is "make it up as you go" nonsense just to keep attention focused on you for another ten pages.

 

[JayUtah]

The video LOOKS like a thermal runaway taking place, and not a fuel tank explosion, as suggested by the Romanian lady.

And why does "the Romanian lady" now become the authority on vehicle fires?

Simply repeating the same sentence by Mr. Hoskinson over and over, doesn't change its original meaning.

Imagining you're smarter than the fire department doesn't change it's ongoing authority.

 

[Dabop]

Another fun thing to actually try yourself to see how a pressurised hose can jet QUITE a distance (and its not even a particularly high pressure inside either)
Get a garden hose with a 'nozzle' that can be turned off
Now with a sharp pin or needle- poke a hole in it with the tap that is feeding it turned on and the nozzle turned off (if you do this, do it right near the end so you can cut the bit with the hole in it off and reconnect the fitting on it again, so you don't have to throw away the entire hose)

Even at the pressure of a water mains- the fine jet can be thrown a quite respectable distance (I know, because I had a hole in the hose that feeds my shed in it- and even at the low pressure (about 14psi) that my pump runs at- the jet was reaching the gutter of the shed, and I cant reach them without a ladder...)
Turn the hose 90 degrees, and you have a 'sideways jet' that can be thrown several metres...

A high pressure fuel line can be tens of time higher pressure, and won't de-pressurise immediately when the pump is turned off, and a small 'pinhole' leak will take minutes to lose all the pressure- continuing to jet a finely atomised spray of fuel out until the pressure drops-you won't even notice a small leak like that (unless it catches fire) but immediately turning off the ignition after it has caught fire will continue to feed fuel to the fire until that pressure drops (and that could be ten minutes or more for a pinhole leak)- so the fire will continue to burn from diesel being fed to it for a much longer period of time, turning off the ignition won't stop the fuel delivery, not until the stored pressure in that line drops...

So your 'sideways jet' of flame is easily and readily explained, without the need for lithium batteries, coverups by the fire service, the primeminister and hundreds of other people..

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Which was Agatha's point.

You were the one calling it a homily.

And and the 1678 date is for "muck and money go together" being recorded in John Ray's "A Collection of English Proverbs" (thank you Zooterkin) not "Where there's muck there's brass" or even "Where there's brass theres muck" as Vixen misquoted it.

The actual saying that Vixen has been trying to impose her own meaning on can be found on Oxford Reference here-: https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100214209

Which gives the entirely unambiguous meaning-:

Dirty or unpleasant activities are also lucrative

As has already been posted twice

The reason "muck" was lucrative has also been discussed-:

At the time the phrase originated literal 'muck', horse dung from the streets and human 'nightsoil' were collected and sold for manure to farms and dog faeces was used in the tanning process in large quantities so was also valuable. On top of that there would be items such as coins, buttons, lost jewellery occasionally mixed in, cloth (which was used in papermaking) and bones which would be broken down to make bone meal for animal feed, any scrap metal could also be claimed and recycled. The phrase was expanded to mean any dirty, unpleasant work, but originally the 'muck' was meant quite seriously.

There was a very interesting series "24 Hours in the Past" that covered this quite comprehensively in it's first episode.

The idea that the saying "Where there's muck there's brass" implies corruption in the UK is laughable.

Incidentally, Sir Terry Pritchett, who's works while fictional, fantastic & comic included a fair bit of historical detail on the quiet, had a character who was the very embodiment of the saying. While the character and setting are fictional and exaggerated for effect, businesses of this type existed and prospered.
https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Harry_King