U.S. Border and Immigration

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Because the person you are deporting committed the crime in YOUR country. Your house, your rules, your punishment. Different countries have different laws.

I gave the example of Indonesia jailing Australians for decades for selling marijuana. In Australia that's a low grade offence, hardly jailable. Indonesia does not deport Australian criminals, or any other nationalities.

Also, since when did CA have border controls with other US states? Unless you mean entry from Mexico?

California has a port of entry on Interstate 40 at its border with Arizona. Before crossing into California you are questioned. Things like "What is the purpose of your visit?", "Do you have any fruits or vegetables?"

It reminds me of the Juarez border crossing in El Paso Texas, though they usually ask about alcohol instead of fruit.

 

[Norman Alexander]

California has a port of entry on Interstate 40 at its border with Arizona. Before crossing into California you are questioned. Things like "What is the purpose of your visit?", "Do you have any fruits or vegetables?"

It reminds me of the Juarez border crossing in El Paso Texas, though they usually ask about alcohol instead of fruit.

That's an agricultural check, not a "border control". They won't stop you entering in either direction, but they might just confiscate your fruit-fly-ridden produce. PS. I've been there a few times.

Do you normally exaggerate this much?

 

[dudalb]

That's an agricultural check, not a "border control". They won't stop you entering in either direction, but they might just confiscate your fruit-fly-ridden produce. PS. I've been there a few times.

Do you normally exaggerate this much?

Beat me to it. For a long time, California did have border chekcs where they asked it you were carrying any fresh fruits or vegetables from other states and it you were, you were asked to throw them away.
Nowdays a lot of the time the checkpoints are not even manned.

 

[dudalb]

That's an agricultural check, not a "border control". They won't stop you entering in either direction, but they might just confiscate your fruit-fly-ridden produce. PS. I've been there a few times.

Do you normally exaggerate this much?

Omeone just does not want to let in anybody who is not a White Nordic type into the US.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Omeone just does not want to let in anybody who is not a White Nordic type into the US.

From California? Or from Arizona?

 

[Roboramma]

Perhaps of interest to the thread:

https://marginalrevolution.com/marg...e-fiscal-impact-of-low-skill-immigration.html

Low-skill immigrants have low wages and thus don’t pay much in taxes but they do use some government services, especially education for their children. What’s the net fiscal impact? The National Academy of Sciences did a detailed scenario analysis looking at the impact over 75 years, thus including second and third generations. Overall the NAS concluded that the net fiscal impact of the average immigrant was positive. The impact was negative, however, for immigrants with just a high school education and even more so for immigrants with less than a high-school education.

Two recent papers qualify this conclusion. The NAS study estimated the direct fiscal effects of an immigrant–what do they pay in taxes and what do they take out in services? Immigration, however, has indirect effects on the native born population. In the The Case for Getting Rid of Borders I wrote:

"The immigrant who mows the lawn of the nuclear physicist indirectly helps to unlock the secrets of the universe."

More prosaically, low-skill immigrants can complement higher-skilled native labor, increasing native productivity. Go to any fine restaurant in DC, for example, and you will typically see a native-born front of the house and a Mexican born back-of-the house. As Tyler quipped at lunch recently, all restaurants in the United States are Mexican restaurants only the type of food they are cooking changes. The opportunity to hire Mexican cooks increases the number of restaurants and the opportunities and wages of the native-born front of the house. Higher native wages mean higher taxes so there is a beneficial indirect fiscal effect of low-skill immigration.

A recent paper by Colas and Sachs, The Indirect Benefits of Low-Skilled Immigration finds that under plausible assumptions the indirect effects are large enough to make the net effects of immigration positive for almost all US immigrants.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The current situation is 100% US home made.

For decades, the US has massively benefitted from making it easy for migrant workers, which meant that people got their education elsewhere, and lived most of the year in their country of origin. Now that migrants have to find housing and education here, it puts tremendous pressure on the system.

The current system is optimized to give the most money to border security and coyotes.

 

[Roboramma]

The current situation is 100% US home made.

For decades, the US has massively benefitted from making it easy for migrant workers, which meant that people got their education elsewhere, and lived most of the year in their country of origin. Now that migrants have to find housing and education here, it puts tremendous pressure on the system.

The current system is optimized to give the most money to border security and coyotes.

The punchline of what I posted was "under plausible assumptions the indirect effects are large enough to make the net effects of immigration positive for almost all US immigrants." Which suggests that even low-education immigrants ("almost all US immigrants") are net positive from a fiscal* perspective. Which suggests that they aren't putting tremendous pressure on the system.

*Note that the economy-wide perspective is more positive than just the fiscal perspective.

 

[Minoosh]

Saw this on Marginal Revolution today:

https://www.wsj.com/business/entrep...ting-u-s-businesses-at-a-torrid-pace-64773fc3

I've known illegal aliens who have thriving businesses. One had a janitorial business with several crews. No green card, but since nobody is employing him he doesn't have to show proof he's a citizen. In theory, EMPLOYERS must require proof of citizenship of the employee.

 

[Minoosh]

The actions of an individual is indicative of the behavior of an entire group of people.

The vast majority of Mexicans are, of course, not murderers.

I learned that here at the ol' skeptics forum.

Can you cite the thread or threads where people said this?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The punchline of what I posted was "under plausible assumptions the indirect effects are large enough to make the net effects of immigration positive for almost all US immigrants." Which suggests that even low-education immigrants ("almost all US immigrants") are net positive from a fiscal* perspective. Which suggests that they aren't putting tremendous pressure on the system.

*Note that the economy-wide perspective is more positive than just the fiscal perspective.

but the net effect would be much bigger if they wouldn't be forced to live in the US and wouldn't be forced to hand over large amounts of their income to people smugglers.

 

[Roboramma]

but the net effect would be much bigger if they wouldn't be forced to live in the US and wouldn't be forced to hand over large amounts of their income to people smugglers.

Ah, I see your point now. I agree.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

That's an agricultural check, not a "border control". They won't stop you entering in either direction, but they might just confiscate your fruit-fly-ridden produce. PS. I've been there a few times.

Do you normally exaggerate this much?

Beat me to it. For a long time, California did have border chekcs where they asked it you were carrying any fresh fruits or vegetables from other states and it you were, you were asked to throw them away.
Nowdays a lot of the time the checkpoints are not even manned.

I'd bet a dollar to a dime I've been thru that California "port of entry" on Interstate 40 more times than both you folks combined. One of the specific questions they ask is: "What is the purpose of your visit to California?"

Now you may freely call it whatever you wish, but it's the ONLY port of entry in the US between state lines where citizens must physically stop and answer questions before passing across the state line. Questions that are far and away from determining simply if you have fruit on board. (although the question about fruits and vegetables is part of the package) Requesting "my purpose" for visiting California has nothing to do with an apple or an orange.

Now Florida has an agricultural check station for semi trucks. Though motorists are not tasked with stopping at it unless they're driving a Semi truck. And there is no physical border directly on the Interstate at which one must stop prior to being granted entry into Florida. I've stopped at a "real" agriculture check station in Florida before too and they did not ask me any questions unrelated to fruit or vegetables. And that is the difference.

There are many border patrol check stations posted within many of the US states along the Mexican border, and I've been thru most, if not all, of those as well. But, all those border patrol stations are within the state and none are placed at state lines. Their questioning is limited to a couple of simple phrases which boil down to: "State your citizenship" or "Are you a citizen of the United States?"

Back to California, it's almost as if they feel they're some sort of separate entity from other US states. It's the only port of entry on a US state line outside of the Mexican border where I've been asked "What is the purpose of your visit?" prior to be allowed to cross into California from Arizona. Every other state you simply drive across, view the "Welcome to" sign and continue your travels without stopping. If you ever wondered what it was like to travel in Nazi Germany during Hitler, and long to hear something akin to "Show me your papers." I highly suggest a trip to California.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I'd bet a dollar to a dime I've been thru that California "port of entry" on Interstate 40 more times than both you folks combined. One of the specific questions they ask is: "What is the purpose of your visit to California?"

Now you may freely call it whatever you wish, but it's the ONLY port of entry in the US between state lines where citizens must physically stop and answer questions before passing across the state line. Questions that are far and away from determining simply if you have fruit on board. (although the question about fruits and vegetables is part of the package) Requesting "my purpose" for visiting California has nothing to do with an apple or an orange.

Now Florida has an agricultural check station for semi trucks. Though motorists are not tasked with stopping at it unless they're driving a Semi truck. And there is no physical border directly on the Interstate at which one must stop prior to being granted entry into Florida. I've stopped at a "real" agriculture check station in Florida before too and they did not ask me any questions unrelated to fruit or vegetables. And that is the difference.

There are many border patrol check stations posted within many of the US states along the Mexican border, and I've been thru most, if not all, of those as well. But, all those border patrol stations are within the state and none are placed at state lines. Their questioning is limited to a couple of simple phrases which boil down to: "State your citizenship" or "Are you a citizen of the United States?"

Back to California, it's almost as if they feel they're some sort of separate entity from other US states. It's the only port of entry on a US state line outside of the Mexican border where I've been asked "What is the purpose of your visit?" prior to be allowed to cross into California from Arizona. Every other state you simply drive across, view the "Welcome to" sign and continue your travels without stopping. If you ever wondered what it was like to travel in Nazi Germany during Hitler, and long to hear something akin to "Show me your papers." I highly suggest a trip to California.

I've been in and out of California many times. Your desperate attempts to make a fruit-fly check-point into a border control point are laughably pathetic. They are looking for fruit, dude, not your meth stash. California grows fruit. It's a gigantic and expensive industry. They don't want it ruined by the likes of you trying to smuggle your bananas because "MA FREEDUMZ!"

ETA: If it makes you any happier, we have similar fruit-fly checkpoints in Australia, and not just at the borders. And yet...somehow...we don't feel our border rights are being denied.

[IMGw=400]https://interstatequarantine.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Bananas-mangos-and-sugar-cane-sign.jpg[/IMGw][IMGw=400]https://kiyanti2008.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/fruit-fly-sign.jpg?w=500[/IMGw]

 

[ponderingturtle]

The vast majority of Mexicans are, of course, not murderers.

But all catholic priests rape kids, just like all republican speakers of the house have a history of sexually molesting high school boys. Collective guilt is wonderful.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I've been in and out of California many times. Your desperate attempts to make a fruit-fly check-point into a border control point are laughably pathetic. They are looking for fruit, dude, not your meth stash. California grows fruit. It's a gigantic and expensive industry. They don't want it ruined by the likes of you trying to smuggle your bananas because "MA FREEDUMZ!"

Spreading disease makes conservatives happy why limit it to human diseases and parasites.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

I'd bet a dollar to a dime I've been thru that California "port of entry" on Interstate 40 more times than both you folks combined. One of the specific questions they ask is: "What is the purpose of your visit to California?"

Now you may freely call it whatever you wish, but it's the ONLY port of entry in the US between state lines where citizens must physically stop and answer questions before passing across the state line. Questions that are far and away from determining simply if you have fruit on board. (although the question about fruits and vegetables is part of the package) Requesting "my purpose" for visiting California has nothing to do with an apple or an orange.
Now Florida has an agricultural check station for semi trucks. Though motorists are not tasked with stopping at it unless they're driving a Semi truck. And there is no physical border directly on the Interstate at which one must stop prior to being granted entry into Florida. I've stopped at a "real" agriculture check station in Florida before too and they did not ask me any questions unrelated to fruit or vegetables. And that is the difference.

There are many border patrol check stations posted within many of the US states along the Mexican border, and I've been thru most, if not all, of those as well. But, all those border patrol stations are within the state and none are placed at state lines. Their questioning is limited to a couple of simple phrases which boil down to: "State your citizenship" or "Are you a citizen of the United States?"

Back to California, it's almost as if they feel they're some sort of separate entity from other US states. It's the only port of entry on a US state line outside of the Mexican border where I've been asked "What is the purpose of your visit?" prior to be allowed to cross into California from Arizona. Every other state you simply drive across, view the "Welcome to" sign and continue your travels without stopping. If you ever wondered what it was like to travel in Nazi Germany during Hitler, and long to hear something akin to "Show me your papers." I highly suggest a trip to California.

I've been in and out of California many times. Your desperate attempts to make a fruit-fly check-point into a border control point are laughably pathetic. They are looking for fruit, dude, not your meth stash. California grows fruit. It's a gigantic and expensive industry. They don't want it ruined by the likes of you trying to smuggle your bananas because "MA FREEDUMZ!"

ETA: If it makes you any happier, we have similar fruit-fly checkpoints in Australia, and not just at the borders. And yet...somehow...we don't feel our border rights are being denied.

[IMGw=400]https://interstatequarantine.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Bananas-mangos-and-sugar-cane-sign.jpg[/IMGw][IMGw=400]https://kiyanti2008.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/fruit-fly-sign.jpg?w=500[/IMGw]

In your haste to condescend, you seem to have missed an important detail of my post, so I've hilited for you. Try not to miss it this time.

 

[Frank Newgent]

For decades, the US has massively benefitted from making it easy for migrant workers, which meant that people got their education elsewhere, and lived most of the year in their country of origin. Now that migrants have to find housing and education here, it puts tremendous pressure on the system.

There's a Mexican song about that.

 

[Craig4]

In your haste to condescend, you seem to have missed an important detail of my post, so I've hilited for you. Try not to miss it this time.

The highlighted is a lie You don't get asked about your purpose at those checkpoints, just your snacks. I've been through them before too.

 

[Norman Alexander]

In your haste to condescend, you seem to have missed an important detail of my post, so I've hilited for you. Try not to miss it this time.

Didn't miss it the first time. Which is why I said you exaggerated. I'm betting they are not police or military on those control points, but officials from some Agriculture Dept.

The highlighted is a lie You don't get asked about your purpose at those checkpoints, just your snacks. I've been through them before too.

Indeed. I have visited the USA a number of times, driving from CA to AZ and back. So I have also been through these "border gates". I have a foreign passport and was driving a rental car, and yet I've NEVER been asked "what is your purpose for visiting California". I was asked only if we had any fruit or veg. Nope. Have a nice day!

Besides, what's so violating about being asked politely what the purpose of your visit is? Isn't that precisely what you would expect people to ask of "illegal immigrants" in cars and trucks? How do they know you aren't one of them?