Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

[Darat]

There are plenty of unofficial stories about all kinds of thing going around and people are free to say what they like within the law. However, people will expect verification for a thing to become a fact and that is the difficult hurdle.

Non sequitur.

 

[Mojo]

However, people will expect verification for a thing to become a fact and that is the difficult hurdle.

You mean things like, "The vehicle involved was diesel-powered – it was not a mild hybrid, plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle"? You seem to be having particular difficulty hurdling that one.

 

[Agatha]

Why do you think we should be given the exact make and model of the first car to catch fire before the full report is out? Why is it not sufficient for you at this stage for Beds F&R to state unequivocally "The vehicle involved was diesel-powered - it was not a mild hybrid, plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle".

Last August I was on the M1 south and a lorry caught fire. The junction was closed after I joined so I was in the trapped traffic, which was eventually waved past the fire. None of the press reports, then or now, give the exact make/model of the lorry. I am sure that the full report produced by the fire service does mention it, but the press didn't report it because it's not necessary to understand the fire.

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2023-08-24/tanker-fire-which-closed-motorway-caused-by-engine-damage.

I was about 100 metres away from the fire when a tyre on the tanker blew out, it was so loud! At that stage there was only a couple of police cars there, the fire service hadn't arrived. After the tyre blew, the police officer who was waving us through in the outside line started shouting at the traffic to speed up and get clear fast. It's four lanes plus hard shoulder there, but the heat was intense as I drove past. And then the motorway was closed both ways for the rest of the day so a 45 minute journey home later took almost four hours.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

There you are then, the exact make and model of the lorry were embargoed by whichever government minister has shares in Big Lorry.

Yesterday my brother sent me a photo of a police car stuck halfway through a garden wall at the end of his road (and the news later showed the same car and some nutcase running around with a chainsaw. Bit of local colour.) and I thought that police car looks like my wife's car except for the decals*. But I'll never know because the make and model of the police car has clearly been embargoed by the Minister for Police Cars.

 

[Mojo]

Of course, when the make and model are released, the question will suddenly turn out to be, "why are they saying it's that particular model?"

 

[GlennB]

Of course, when the make and model are released, the question will suddenly turn out to be, "why are they saying it's that particular model?"

And - "What is the VIN?" or, if given, "A VIN is easily faked" etc etc

Vixen is incapable of admitting major errors and won't start here.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

This is very simple. Find a single newspaper or broadcaster that confirms from official sources the make and model of the vehicle involved.

Can't find anything?

There's your press embargo.

That's a ridiculous leap.

That isn't evidence of a press embargo, it's evidence they aren't confirming it for whatever reason. Sure, it could be a press embargo, or it could be they don't care to, or they don't know or any other of hundreds of possible options. There is exactly as much evidence it's because of a press embargo as there is that they aren't publishing it because gnomes won't let them.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

The one that claims we MUST accept the foregone conclusion as handed down on Day One at 10:00am, even though the investigation has only just started!

You're lying again.

Quote anyone saying that or retract the lie.

 

[phiwum]

There are MHEV's, PHEV's and full EV's. The hybrids can combine either diesel or petrol. Anything with a lithium ion battery can have a thermal runaway. See here for example of what an electric bike one looks like. https://youtu.be/wxr1iXEf9lY?si=K9qPj-GNV7xzYU6A

ICE engine-only cars do not suffer thermal runaway as they do not have lithium-ion car batteries.

Okay, so only hybrids or EVs are capable of thermal runaways. But are you confident that the Luton fire started with a thermal runaway? Couldn't it have been just a diesel fuel leak or something besides a thermal runaway?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

There is exactly as much evidence it's because of a press embargo as there is that they aren't publishing it because gnomes won't let them.

Sunak is rather small but I don't think he's a genuine fairytale creature.

 

[catsmate]

Sunak has regular meetings with key personnel, including the security agencies, together with a whole team of special advisers. That doesn't mean he doesn't also have personal interests because one's spouse does not count. Sunak sold his Infosys shares to his wife, so now he is free to give Infosys a huge contract, yet remain completely innocent of breaking the ministerial code, which requires declaration of interests and conflicts of interest.

So it is quite possible he or his wife being close acquaintances with Mr. Tata to consciously or unconsciously want to protect the Tata JLR brand. The way around it IMV is to declare the name, model and make of the vehicles that started the Luton fire.

Except, as we all know, the vehicle that started the fire is a diesel ICE Land Rover.

 

[catsmate]

Muck and brass was not equated to working hard. The northern slagheaps - which were dug out of muck - were equated with wealth for the wealthy, not the hard workers.

What has this to do with your lack of comprehension of a Yorkshire aphorism?

 

[SpitfireIX]

Ok fair enough. However, the spouse is not compelled to follow the ministerial code. Much of it is based on the principle of being 'honourable' yet time and again we see Right Honourable members lining their pockets rarely facing any consequences when caught out

.

Non sequitur. She's not a government minister; she doesn't have the power to direct business to Infosys.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Non sequitur. She's not a government minister; she doesn't have the power to direct business to Infosys.

And whatever the spouse does, if it creates a conflict of interest for the minister, it absolutely is covered by the Ministerial Code. So it's a meaningless nonsense to claim the spouse is not covered by the code since everything the couple do separately or together is covered by the code and has consequences for whichever one of the couple is a government minister.

 

[JayUtah]

This is very simple. Find a single newspaper or broadcaster that confirms from official sources the make and model of the vehicle involved.

Can't find anything?

There's your press embargo.

No, that's not how evidence works.

 

[JayUtah]

The one that claims we MUST accept the foregone conclusion as handed down on Day One at 10:00am, even though the investigation has only just started!

From your vast experience in forensic investigation you can tell us that reliable information cannot become available early in an investigation. Vixensplaining is not evidence.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

No, that's not how evidence works.

But how would Vixen know that?

 

[JayUtah]

For example the Romanian lady who took the video of what looks exactly like a thermal runaway...

According to whom?

 

[JayUtah]

ICE engine-only cars do not suffer thermal runaway as they do not have lithium-ion car batteries.

Red herring, since the terminology "thermal runaway" is only associated with electric batteries. ICE vehicles do, however, exhibit flashover.

 

[Mojo]

If you are talking about eye witnesses, here, too, eye witnesses are important. For example the Romanian lady who took the video of what looks exactly like a thermal runaway and the other chap who gave us the exact time the fire moved up to the roof.

What about the witnesses who said it started on the roof? The accounts can't both be true.

Why do you think police ask for eye witnesses to crimes and accidents?

Because even though they can be mistaken (see above), they are a useful source of information. Witnesses are not infallible, either in their actual observation or in the impressions they draw from those observations.

But as I said, I wasn't talking about eyewitnesses, I was talking about your insistence in the Estonia thread that early newspaper reports of an incident, made before all the evidence can be collected, are a more accurate account of events than later ones.