Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

[phiwum]

I do not have sufficient information to come to a conclusion.

Really?

You believe that the initial vehicle was a hybrid, but you don't know whether the statement

"The vehicle involved was diesel-powered – it was not a mild hybrid, plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle,"​

is true or false?

Well, this does tell us something about your basic reasoning abilities.

(To be honest, I think it tells us more about your intellectual integrity.)

 

[Vixen]

That is simply untrue.

The notorious euphemism in the UK for politicians misleading people is "being economical with the truth". But that is not happening here because it does not mean lying. It is presenting only some of the facts to encourage others to reach wrong conclusions.

Despite your denialism, that is not happening here. The Fire Service are not equivocating. They say flat out this was not a fire in any type of EV. Your bizarre denial that they say this is absurd and wrong.

I have not at any point said the fire brigade has acted improperly. You are the one claiming 'they must be lying'.


I am sure you know perfectly well how organisations work.

 

[JayUtah]

No, the findings were not out on 11 October 2023.

Straw man. The fire service have since confirmed the fuel type of the vehicle.

The Fire Brigade were giving a polite update to the press, which is the normal convention in a serious incident. You will have to wait for the report to discover the findings.

As of now, relevant competent authority has confirmed the fuel type of the vehicle. There is no need to wait for the final report; it is not in any way "magical" in that respect. If that conclusion can be drawn and reported, there is no problem reporting it.

In any case, you attempted to state the objection your to claims of the possibility of an EV as some sort of statistical argument. That is a lie. As your critics are reminding you en masse, the objection to your claims of an EV is not based on a statistical argument, but upon an authoritative finding that you are disputing with no evidence.

 

[zooterkin]

Now juxtapose muck with brass.

Nothing to do with 'work hard and it'll be lucrative'.

Seriously, do you type without checking what you're talking about?

And the meaning isn't that where there's money there's corruption, rather it's that there are opportunities to profit from doing literally dirty or unpleasant work.

That is the modern meaning. Look up the etymology of 'muck' and its original meaning then you'll have a better idea of how the phrase arose in its pure sense.

Please enlighten us peasants as to how "Where there's muck there's brass" (and not the other way around, as you presented it) is significantly different in meaning from what P.J.Denyer said, "profit from doing literally dirty or unpleasant work"?

 

[Vixen]

The National Fire Protection Association is really an International organisation. Right...


The question, anyway, was whether its requirements apply to the UK. Can you show that they do?

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Fire_Protection_Associationi

Abbreviation NFPA
Founded November 6, 1896; 127 years ago[1]
Type Nonprofit
Focus Industry standards, publications, conferences
Headquarters Quincy, Massachusetts, U.S.
Area served Worldwide
Members (2023) 50,000
President and CEO Jim Pauley[2]
Volunteers (2023) 9,000
Website nfpa.org

As with any membership organisation you agree to adhere to its principles.

More about parking garages and sprinklers here: https://www.nfpa.org/news-blogs-and-articles/blogs/2022/11/28/evs-and-parking-structures

 

[Jack by the hedge]

See here in the Liverpool King's Dock Report on page 24. https://www.bafsa.org.uk/wp-content...er/2018/12/Merseyside-FRS-Car-Park-Report.pdf

Look very closely at the photograph shown of vertical flames of fire. See them? Those vertical flames were caused by the vertical aluminium trays (sorry, not pipes) and drainage pipes spreading the fire.

https://www.bafsa.org.uk/wp-content...er/2018/12/Merseyside-FRS-Car-Park-Report.pdf



Mr. Hopkinson in his press conference states the Luton Fire also spread 'vertically and laterally' - see at point 0:00 - 0:50.


https://www.newsflare.com/video/596...ew-following-luton-airport-blaze-in-luton-uk#

Attached shows a press photo of the Luton fire which shows the same vertical pattern of flames as the Liverpool one.

Compare the Luton flames with the Liverpool ones. Added to the lack of sprinklers, it seems to be an absolute copy of it or how else did the flames travel vertically?

This seems to be a very long-winded way to admit that you have indeed just got confused about which fire was which and so you declared the Luton car park had those aluminium drainage channels when in fact they were a feature of the Liverpool car park.

 

[catsmate]

Completely scientific. Fire risk assessment after fire risk assessment in building is designed to PREVENT fires from spreading. This means designing a car park in which car fires do not automatically spread to each other and certainly not to other levels.

If a fire reaches the stage of being uncontrolled then something in the FRA has failed to have done what it should do.

Magical thinking is believing there is nothing we can do about it.

Utter nonsense. Stop pontificating about matters you don't understand.

 

[JayUtah]

I do not have sufficient information to come to a conclusion.

But you clearly have a belief notwithstanding. You're being asked to reconcile the different expressions of your belief into something other than a conspiracy tap-dance.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Yes, it is actually an international body, although based in the USA.

If it's International why is it called National?

 

[Mojo]

Now juxtapose muck with brass.

Nothing to do with 'work hard and it'll be lucrative'.

According to Brewer it possibly originated with using manure to grow crops, and then later came to mean that there's money to be made in unpleasant trades or by hard work. There's no indication anywhere that it has ever had the connotations that you twisted it into as a result of getting it backwards.

 

[Vixen]

Seriously, do you type without checking what you're talking about?



Please enlighten us peasants as to how "Where there's muck there's brass" (and not the other way around, as you presented it) is significantly different in meaning from what P.J.Denyer said, "profit from doing literally dirty or unpleasant work"?

Given your English comprehension is so much better than mine, perhaps you'll agree that 'muck' is not a verb? What do you perceive to be 'muck': do you equate it with work?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I have not at any point said the fire brigade has acted improperly. You are the one claiming 'they must be lying'.

You have kept us all amused by the way you twist and turn in order to avoid saying they're lying by pretending they did not say what they very emphatically do say.

We're pointing out that if what you claim was true then they must be lying. You keep finding implausible excuses to avoid facing that.

 

[Vixen]

According to Brewer it possibly originated with using manure to grow crops, and then later came to mean that there's money to be made in unpleasant trades or by hard work. There's no indication anywhere that it has ever had the connotations that you twisted it into as a result of getting it backwards.

Exactly. When I was a kid we called '****' dog's muck or bird's muck.

Now think of the word 'brass'. How did money come to be its slang, bearing in mind coins haven't always been available for the common people who use common terms such as 'muck'.

 

[JayUtah]

Completely scientific.

You're not a scientist, nor can you demonstrate any competence in scientific knowledge or reasoning.

Fire risk assessment after fire risk assessment in building is designed to PREVENT fires from spreading.

According to whom? In combination with what other objectives?

This means designing a car park in which car fires do not automatically spread to each other and certainly not to other levels.

You have demonstrated that you are not competent to produce or comment upon the design of car parks, or any other structure, from the position of fire safety or any other criterion.

If a fire reaches the stage of being uncontrolled then something in the FRA has failed to have done what it should do.

No, from a position of experience, that does not follow.

Magical thinking is believing there is nothing we can do about it.

Straw man. No one is claiming no one can mitigate the effect of vehicle fires in parking structures.

Magical thinking continues to be best expressed as you pretending you know what you're talking about, that you know and understand all the mistakes you tthink others are making, and that your uninformed, knee-jerk opinions constitute any sort off valid finding that others are obliged to pay attention to.

 

[GlennB]

Now juxtapose muck with brass.

Nothing to do with 'work hard and it'll be lucrative'.

Explained several times already, but you are 99% unable to accept your mistakes. The other 1% of times you're mealy-mouthed about it.

 

[Vixen]

You have kept us all amused by the way you twist and turn in order to avoid saying they're lying by pretending they did not say what they very emphatically do say.

We're pointing out that if what you claim was true then they must be lying. You keep finding implausible excuses to avoid facing that.

I have explained it on numerous occasions as the web page simply being a précis of what Mr. Hopkinson said in his one and only press conference.

Just as the PM is supposed to announce his policies to the House of Commons for them to be official, likewise, it really matters not a jot what some webpage might write if it doesn't come straight from the PM's mouth. All else is just noise.

 

[Mojo]

I have not at any point said the fire brigade has acted improperly. You are the one claiming 'they must be lying'.

If, as you claim, the fire started in an EV or hybrid, then what they said in their press statement of 21st March 2024 was not true. You are claiming that they were lying.

 

[JayUtah]

As with any membership organisation you agree to adhere to its principles.

What is your evidence that this organization determined or should have determined how the Luton car park was obliged by code to have been built?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Fire_Protection_Associationi

Abbreviation NFPA
...
(irrelevant filler abbreviated)

That's a long-winded way to say "No, I do not know what force NFPA requirements have in UK building codes, I just Googled it up and didn't notice it was an American website because it doesn't clearly say so".

 

[phiwum]

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Fire_Protection_Associationi

Abbreviation NFPA
Founded November 6, 1896; 127 years ago[1]
Type Nonprofit
Focus Industry standards, publications, conferences
Headquarters Quincy, Massachusetts, U.S.
Area served Worldwide
Members (2023) 50,000
President and CEO Jim Pauley[2]
Volunteers (2023) 9,000
Website nfpa.org

As with any membership organisation you agree to adhere to its principles.

More about parking garages and sprinklers here: https://www.nfpa.org/news-blogs-and-articles/blogs/2022/11/28/evs-and-parking-structures

Yet another failure to respond to the question.

Are UK car parks required to adhere to the standards developed by this US organization?