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Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

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Mojo said:
They weren't formally part of the Axis, but they were fighting against the same country at the same time.
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catsmate said:
Technically co-belligerency..
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I think if you're allowing German troops to launch attacks on your enemies from within you're border, it's fair to say you're allies.

I also think we can safely acknowledge the de facto alliance between Finland and Nazi Germany, without holding it against them. We all understand why Finland did what it did. No reason to minimize it.
 
So there has been a news update in showing how the car park demolition is going. It is worth zooming in on some of the images*, which show hanging bits of concrete and cars piled on top of others, presumably as a result of floor/ceiling collapse.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Airport-car-park-blaze-insurance-payouts.html

ETA: These pictures are better: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/luton-airport-fire-hundreds-burnt-32668109


To recap the timeline:

Started circa 8:38pm 10 October 2023. Video of burning car from behind widely published in mass media. "Witness 'tried putting out fire with extinguisher' after 'fuel tank exploded'" - say newspapers next day.

First 999 call received at 8:47pm. Fire units arrived 8:55pm.

9:00pm or shortly after: Airport witness says he saw one car on fire on airport top level (open) and others rapidly caught fire after that.**


9:38 major incident declared by Fire Brigade.***

12:20am 11 Oct 2023 Critical incident 'stood down' by Fire Brigade

01:15am-ish: (Actually, probably 11:15pm GMT) Eyewitness posts video on X-Twitter showing 'fireball' moment when floor seems to collapse to a lower level.****

This is likely as at the same time of the CCTV airport video showing a car crashing through the ceiling and exploding.

At 3.57am firefighters were still trying to put out the blaze and prevent it from spreading to adjacent buildings and vehicles on the airport runway.

At 8.45am 11 Oct 2023 the fire service confirmed the fire had been extinguished.

10:30 am - first news reports appeared with Andrew Hopkinson Beds fire chief, widely quoted as saying:

Andrew Hopkinson, chief fire officer for Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service, said the fire at Luton Airport is believed to have started with a diesel vehicle.
“We don’t believe it was an electric vehicle,” he said.
“It’s believed to be diesel-powered, at this stage all subject to verification. And then that fire has quickly and rapidly spread.”

A planned strike at the airport was cancelled owing to the fire.*****

Flights resumed at about 3:00pm 11 October having all been cancelled because of the fire.

*Tabloid not behind a paywall. " Luton Airport said more than 60% of the affected car park had been dismantled and 75% of the 1,300 vehicles affected have been ‘removed by salvage experts on behalf of insurers’."

**Russell Taylor flew into the airport from Edinburgh. He told PA Media: “There were a couple of fire engines with a car ablaze on the upper floor of the car park at just after 9pm. A few minutes later most of the upper floor was alight, car alarms were going off with loud explosions from cars going up in flames. The speed in which the fire took hold was incredible.”

*** We have 15 fire appliances, and three specialist aerial appliances from across the county and surrounding counties in attendance and this has been declared a major incident by Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service. Fire crews from Buckinghamshire, Cambridgeshire, Hertfordshire, Northamptonshire and London Fire Brigade also helped with the incident.

****https://x.com/RobsonOReardon/status/1711868144438927380
Looks like the whole car park has just fallen down through the flames! #LutonAirport

*****It’s believed the flames were burning at a temperature well over 600°C (1,110°F).
A Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service spokesman said at the time: ‘One half of the structure is fully involved in fire and the building has suffered a significant structural collapse.


---


Those are the reported facts according to be mass media.

Note:


Question 1. How come NOBODY has asked to reproduce 'Bitcoin Bertie' (517 followers)'s video of the burning car from the front nor 'Amy's' with 200 followers? Why has not a single news media published it?

Question 2. Why has not a single publication nor broadcaster mentioned the vehicle involved was a Range Rover Sport 2014, as is claimed by catsmate et al?

Question 3: Why is Foster Zygote defending the aforesaid video of Bitcoin Bertie so fiercely, when it has NEVER been verified as authentic (unlike Mr. O'Reardon's video, or that of the Romanian lady's, who filmed from behind)?

Question 4: The video taken by the Romanian lady from the back of the vehicle (and even the one posted by 'Bitcoin Bertie') clearly shows the burning vehicle to be on a lower level (see the ceiling in the video).

Question 5: Why do witnesses, and please look carefully at all of the early images [Daily Mirror: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/luton-airport-fire-carpark-live-31154091 say the fire started on the roof of the car park, with no ceiling?

Question 6: If the fire spread from say, level 2 to Level 3 - the top level with no ceiling - how did it spread within apx 20 minutes to the next floor up, yet the cars on the same floor (level 1 or 2) do not show any ongoing fire in any of the early photos? All of the images show vehicles blazing on the top level only, not on any of the lower ones.

Question 7: How was Mr. Hopkinson in a position to state so confidently it was 'not an electric vehicle but a diesel one' as of within hours of the fire being extinguished? Even if the owner had provided an ID how can he know that the DVLA description was accurate and how can he be absolutely certain it was the vehicle filmed by the Romanian lady that started the fire?

Question 8: The car claimed by catsmate and Bitcoin Bertie to be a Range Rover Sport 2014 is claimed by them to have a standard number plate. Yet the car in the Romanian lady's video shows a very short four number -numberplate. This suggests the car, far from being ten-years-old, is much newer, as it points to someone quite wealthy to want to spend tens of thousands of pounds on a personalised numberplate. Why does catsmate believe that identification is the correct one? Or anybody?

Answers please.
 
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theprestige said:
I think if you're allowing German troops to launch attacks on your enemies from within you're border, it's fair to say you're allies.

I also think we can safely acknowledge the de facto alliance between Finland and Nazi Germany, without holding it against them. We all understand why Finland did what it did. No reason to minimize it.
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You fought on the side of Stalin.
 
Vixen said:
theprestige said:
I think if you're allowing German troops to launch attacks on your enemies from within you're border, it's fair to say you're allies.

I also think we can safely acknowledge the de facto alliance between Finland and Nazi Germany, without holding it against them. We all understand why Finland did what it did. No reason to minimize it.
Click to expand...

You fought on the side of Stalin.
Click to expand...
During World War II, the Soviet Union and the United States were allies.

I'm a bit unclear on what that has to do with the 2023 airport fire that started in a diesel vehicle.
 
Vixen said:
Question 7: How was Mr. Hopkinson in a position to state so confidently it was 'not an electric vehicle but a diesel one' as of within hours of the fire being extinguished? Even if the owner had provided an ID how can he know that the DVLA description was accurate and how can he be absolutely certain it was the vehicle filmed by the Romanian lady that started the fire?
Click to expand...

Most of these questions are irrelevant, since it has been confirmed to be a diesel ICE that started the fire. However. let's look at Question 7.

I don't know how the chief (?) knew the kind of engine in the first car. Perhaps that will come out later. However, as far as why we reckon the filmed vehicle was the first car:
  1. There were no other cars on fire near that vehicle. The video is clear enough on that point.
  2. Hence, it seems that either that was the first vehicle or two vehicles coincidentally caught fire without any causal connection between the two of them.
  3. The driver of the first vehicle reportedly attempted to put out the fire with an extinguisher and an extinguisher is found in the video.
  4. Thus, to add to the coincidences, if there are two vehicles that happened to catch fire at about the same time, both fires were unsuccessfully treated with a fire extinguisher.
  5. The first vehicle to catch fire was not in a parking space and neither was the vehicle in the video.
The coincidental fires are pretty damned unlikely. Even if you could imagine that the first vehicle fire somehow caused the fire in the video, despite no evident fire nearby, the other two coincidences remain unscathed.

Hence, it is very likely that the video does indeed show the first vehicle to catch fire.
 
Vixen said:
Question 1. How come NOBODY has asked to reproduce 'Bitcoin Bertie' (517 followers)'s video of the burning car from the front nor 'Amy's' with 200 followers? Why has not a single news media published it?
Click to expand...

Hidden premise: Vixen's particular favorite social media sites should be noticed and appreciated by everyone. If they aren't, it's suspicious.

Question 2. Why has not a single publication nor broadcaster mentioned the vehicle involved was a Range Rover Sport 2014, as is claimed by catsmate et al?
Click to expand...

Hidden premise: This is newsworthy material. If people aren't circulating it, it's suspicious.

Question 3: Why is Foster Zygote defending the aforesaid video of Bitcoin Bertie so fiercely, when it has NEVER been verified as authentic (unlike Mr. O'Reardon's video, or that of the Romanian lady's, who filmed from behind)?
Click to expand...

Equivocation: Showing that your attempts to discredit it are ignorant and simplistic is not tantamout to "defending" it.

Question 4: The video taken by the Romanian lady from the back of the vehicle (and even the one posted by 'Bitcoin Bertie') clearly shows the burning vehicle to be on a lower level (see the ceiling in the video).
Click to expand...

Hidden premise: Vixen is adept at extracting geometry from photographic data.

Question 5: Why do witnesses, and please look carefully at all of the early images [Daily Mirror: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/luton-airport-fire-carpark-live-31154091 say the fire started on the roof of the car park, with no ceiling?
Click to expand...

Hidden premise: Eyewitness testimony is always reliable.

Question 6: If the fire spread from say, level 2 to Level 3 - the top level with no ceiling - how did it spread within apx 20 minutes to the next floor up, yet the cars on the same floor (level 1 or 2) do not show any ongoing fire in any of the early photos? All of the images show vehicles blazing on the top level only, not on any of the lower ones.
Click to expand...

Hidden premise: What Vixen thinks she sees or doesn't see in photographs is the yardstick by which suspicion is to be reckoned.

Question 7: How was Mr. Hopkinson in a position to state so confidently it was 'not an electric vehicle but a diesel one' as of within hours of the fire being extinguished? Even if the owner had provided an ID how can he know that the DVLA description was accurate and how can he be absolutely certain it was the vehicle filmed by the Romanian lady that started the fire?
Click to expand...

Hidden premise: Vixen knows Mr Hopkinson's job better than he does.

Question 8: The car claimed by catsmate and Bitcoin Bertie to be a Range Rover Sport 2014 is claimed by them to have a standard number plate. Yet the car in the Romanian lady's video shows a very short four number -numberplate. This suggests the car, far from being ten-years-old, is much newer, as it points to someone quite wealthy to want to spend tens of thousands of pounds on a personalised numberplate. Why does catsmate believe that identification is the correct one? Or anybody?
Click to expand...

Hidden premise: Vixen's restrictive understanding of license plates is dispositive.

Answers please.
Click to expand...

Get over yourself.
 
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phiwum said:
Most of these questions are irrelevant, since it has been confirmed to be a diesel ICE that started the fire. However. let's look at Question 7.

I don't know how the chief (?) knew the kind of engine in the first car. Perhaps that will come out later. However, as far as why we reckon the filmed vehicle was the first car:
  1. There were no other cars on fire near that vehicle. The video is clear enough on that point.
  2. Hence, it seems that either that was the first vehicle or two vehicles coincidentally caught fire without any causal connection between the two of them.
  3. The driver of the first vehicle reportedly attempted to put out the fire with an extinguisher and an extinguisher is found in the video.
  4. Thus, to add to the coincidences, if there are two vehicles that happened to catch fire at about the same time, both fires were unsuccessfully treated with a fire extinguisher.
  5. The first vehicle to catch fire was not in a parking space and neither was the vehicle in the video.
The coincidental fires are pretty damned unlikely. Even if you could imagine that the first vehicle fire somehow caused the fire in the video, despite no evident fire nearby, the other two coincidences remain unscathed.

Hence, it is very likely that the video does indeed show the first vehicle to catch fire.
Click to expand...

And you know it is a Range Rover Sport 2014...how...?
 
Question 7: How was Mr. Hopkinson in a position to state so confidently it was 'not an electric vehicle but a diesel one' as of within hours of the fire being extinguished? Even if the owner had provided an ID how can he know that the DVLA description was accurate and how can he be absolutely certain it was the vehicle filmed by the Romanian lady that started the fire?
Click to expand...

Because it's obvious even on a burned out car that it is an EV, petrol or diesel car.

It takes moments to check.
 
Question 6: If the fire spread from say, level 2 to Level 3 - the top level with no ceiling - how did it spread within apx 20 minutes to the next floor up, yet the cars on the same floor (level 1 or 2) do not show any ongoing fire in any of the early photos? All of the images show vehicles blazing on the top level only, not on any of the lower ones.
Click to expand...

Do you think the fire service do not know where the fire started or how it progressed?
 
Andy_Ross said:
Because it's obvious even on a burned out car that it is an EV, petrol or diesel car.

It takes moments to check.
Click to expand...

Lots of ways. Do they have ANPR images from it going into the car park, do they have remains of the numberplate. Do they have any branding identifying the model (my car says TDi, for example). Is there the remains of a diesel engine? Is there a location for a GBFO battery pack? And that's just thinking whilst walking back from the shop.
 
jimbob said:
Lots of ways. Do they have ANPR images from it going into the car park, do they have remains of the numberplate. Do they have any branding identifying the model (my car says TDi, for example). Is there the remains of a diesel engine? Is there a location for a GBFO battery pack? And that's just thinking whilst walking back from the shop.
Click to expand...

The lack of an engine is a good indicator.
 
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