Seeking help with debunking an urban legend...

[headscratcher4]

My Brother, a committed right-winger conspiracy theorist, sent me a chain email telling the story of how Oliver North, testifying before Congress in 1987, answered a question from then Senator Gore by describing Osama Bin Ladin as being the most dangerous person on Earth.

My brother believes this proves that the Clinton people should have known and done more and thus are specifically responsible for 9/11 and that conservatives like North are better able to understand the threats America faces.

Now, aside from legitimate arguments about what the Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush Administration knew or should have known about Bin Ladin and the lead up to 9/11 -- and there are some legitimate questions that can be posed about the Clinton administration's understanding and actions in this regard. The story is pure Bull.

See Snopes: http://snopes.com/rumors/north.asp

Here is my question/request for help....I've sent Snopes to my brother. While he is willing to believe the chain email without verification or citations, he wants to see a citation for the Memo from Oliver North included on the page and denying that he ever talked about Bin Ladin with Senator Gore (he told congress he was worried about Abu Nidal and Lybia).

Snopes doesn't have a cite for the memo. Noth's own site mentions the denile, but doesn't reproduce the memo. Any thoughts on how I might find a copy of the memo with some sort of provenance that I could show my brother?

In the end, my brother will believe what he believes, but I'd like to try and show him that these kinds of email chains are fraught with problems that can be investigated and shown to be true or false with a high degree of certainty.
(Not sure why North's website isn't enough...but there you are. He probably thinks North's gone soft).

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Manny]

The US Senate has a debunking.

 

[Luke T.]

You can always ask Ollie yourself. I guess he gets enough inquiries about it that he has an email response on his web site

1. IN MAY 1986 - FOLLOWING OUR ATTACK ON QUADAFFI'S TERROR BASES IN LYBIA, MY NAME APPEARED ON AN ISLAMIC TERRORIST "HIT LIST" AS A TARGET FOR ASSASSINATION BY ABU NIDAL [HE WAS THEN IN QUADAFFI'S EMPLOY].

2. THAT SAME MONTH, WHILE I WAS ON A SECRET TRIP TO TEHRAN TRYING TO GET AMERICAN HOSTAGES OUT OF BEIRUT, GEN. RICHARD SECORD, USAF(RET.) HAD THE NOW FAMOUS SECURITY SYSTEM INSTALLED AT OUR HOME TO HELP PROTECT BETSY AND OUR CHILDREN.

3. IN FEB 1987 AN ABU NIDAL "SLEEPER CELL" BASED IN VIRGINIA WAS DISPATCHED TO OUR HOME IN GREAT FALLS, VIRGINIA TO CARRY OUT THE "HIT." THE FBI, THANKS TO THE KIND OF "TECHNICAL SURVEILLANCE" NOW BEING SO WIDELY CRITICIZED, DISPATCHED FEDERAL AGENTS TO EVACUATE US FROM OUR HOME, INTERCEPTED THE TERRORISTS AND ARRESTED THEM CARRYING AK-47S, GRENADES AND A DIAGRAM OF OUR HOUSE [THEY HAD GOTTEN IT FROM THE COUNTY ZONING OFFICE].

3. THAT NIGHT, THE U.S. ATTORNEY, HENRY HUDSON [NOW A FEDERAL JUDGE], BROUGHT THE TERRORISTS BEFORE A FEDERAL MAGISTRATE WHO DENIED HUDSON'S REQUEST THAT THEY BE JAILED WITHOUT BOND. THE EXPLANATION: HUDSON COULD NOT REVEAL IN OPEN COURT HOW THE FBI KNEW ABOUT THE ATTEMPTED HIT.

4. BECAUSE THE TERRORISTS WERE ON THE LOOSE, WE WERE SEQUESTERED AT A MILITARY BASE UNTIL THE NAVAL INTELLIGENCE SERVICE COULD ESTABLISH A PROTECTIVE SECURITY DETAIL AT OUR HOME. UNTIL I RETIRED, WE LIVED WITH 35 FEDERAL AGENTS [8 AT A TIME] 24/7. THEY DRINK A LOT OF COFFEE.

5. DURING THE CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS I WAS ASKED ABOUT ABU NIDAL - NOT OSAMA BIN LADEN. AL GORE WAS NOT ON THE COMMITTEE.

6. ABU NIDAL ELUDED OUR GRASP UNTIL 2002. IN SEPTEMBER THAT YEAR HE WAS FOUND DEAD IN BAGHDAD, IRAQ. ACCORDING TO IRAQI AUTHORITIES HE COMMITTED SUICIDE BY SHOOTING HIMSELF IN THE HEAD - FOUR TIMES.

 

[headscratcher4]

Thanks to both of you...the advice is great.

The Senate website is great...and North's own website denies he said what the email chain said...what I'd like to find is another credible source for the memo Luke copied into his message...

Thanks again! Any other ideas are appreciated.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Here's more debunking of this urban legend.

Here and here

 

[Luke T.]

Thanks to both of you...the advice is great.

The Senate website is great...and North's own website denies he said what the email chain said...what I'd like to find is another credible source for the memo Luke copied into his message...

Thanks again! Any other ideas are appreciated.

The irony! He is skeptical of the truth!

 

[Luke T.]

North has his own program on Fox, you know.

After helping plan the U.S. raid on Muammar Qaddafi's terrorist bases in Libya, North was targeted for assassination by Abu Nidal, the world's deadliest assassin.

Fox News Web Site Bio of Oliver North

 

[Luke T.]

NORTH: Let me tell you something. Let me ask you, because I know you know the answers. The guy who tried to kill my wife and kids...

COLMES: Abu...

NORTH: Abu Nidal was found where? Baghdad.

North on Hannity and Colmes.

 

[Luke T.]

Ollie North was once a target for assassination by Abu Nidal, the world's deadliest assassin. What event prompted Nidal to set his sights on Ollie?

Blurb for Ollies book The Assassins

Maybe you can find a copy of the book in the library or a bookstore.

 

[headscratcher4]

The irony! He is skeptical of the truth!

He is a born again Catholic...not that that explains it, but he has put a lot of critical thinking on hold...he doesn't make sound conservative arguments...like those that you've used to make me shut up or rethink a position...but almost automatically cuts to the most strange position (usually involving signs of the end of times).

Oh well, we all have family members like that, I am sure...I susppose you have a crazy liberal somewhere in the blood line who sends you every conspiracy theory about the 2000 elections or the targeting of Bill Clinton by the right?

Fortunately, this one is pretty easy to debunk...even for a skeptic of the truth.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Luke T.]

This "fact" is just plain wrong. Abu Nidal, the terrorist who tried to kill my wife and children, was found dead in Iraq -- not Libya.

Reality check by Oliver North

 

[Luke T.]

Last August, Abu Nidal -- the terrorist who targeted my family and me -- was found dead in Baghdad.

Dispatch from the front by Oliver North

 

[Luke T.]

In fact, if Saddam was not cavorting with Osama bin Laden, it would have been the only terrorist with whom he did not keep company. In August 2002, Sabri al-Banna, better known as Abu Nidal, the terrorist mastermind who targeted my family and me, was found dead with four bullets in his head. Iraqi intelligence ruled it a suicide, which would make it the first multiple-gun-shot-suicide in history.

The year of the memo by Oliver North

 

[Luke T.]

I've been looking for either an actual transcript of North's testimony or a video of it. So far, all I've been able to find is a ABC News Nightline story they did about the email hoax in which they played the relevant clip from North's testimony.

There is no video available of the Nightline report, but the text of North's testimony is there:

(Beginning of footage from July 8, 1987)

Mr. OLIVER NORTH: The issue of the security system was first broached immediately after a threat on my life by Abu Nidal. Abu Nidal is, as I'm sure you on the intelligence committees know, the principal, foremost assassin in the world today. He is a brutal murderer.

And there you are. The "foremost assassin" and "brutal murderer" quotes rumored to have been spoken about Bin Laden.

Source

 

[headscratcher4]

Luke...I am in awe...thanks! I'll bury the sucker. I guess this shows why I often abandon arguments when you weigh in!

 

[Luke T.]

What I find strange is the inablity to locate a transcript of the Iran/Contra hearings. I'm a pretty good googler and have been completely stumped. You'd think every left of center, and a few right of center, web site out there would have it in their stash. At least somewhere on a government site? No.

Bizarre.

 

[headscratcher4]

What I find strange is the inablity to locate a transcript of the Iran/Contra hearings. I'm a pretty good googler and have been completely stumped. You'd think every left of center, and a few right of center, web site out there would have it in their stash. At least somewhere on a government site? No.

Bizarre.

Did the committee do a final report? Would the transcript be included in the report? When I worked on the Hill for a Committee, we would issue reports on our hearings and included a transcript. I agree, however, that one would think that finding a transcript for this historic event would be easy...did it go down the memory hole?

 

[bjb]

I don't know if Wikipedia can be trusted, but it says that the official Iraqi story is that Abu Nidal killed himself with a single shot, but other stories say there were more gunshots to his body. There are some variations ti the story but they all seem to agree that Saddam Hussein ordered the assassination of Abu Nidal.

 

[BPSCG]

What I find strange is the inablity to locate a transcript of the Iran/Contra hearings. I'm a pretty good googler and have been completely stumped. You'd think every left of center, and a few right of center, web site out there would have it in their stash. At least somewhere on a government site? No.

Bizarre.

Is the Congressional Record available on the web?

 

[Luke T.]

Is the Congressional Record available on the web?

Only from 1994 to the present.

ETA: So I'm free to claim William Jennings Bryan once called House Speaker Crisp the most dangerous assassin in the world.