Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

[Andy_Ross]

That issue has been dealt with. 'Electrical fault' is the second most common cause of car fire and more often than not it is to do with poor maintenance and people messing about with their engines. My post merely pointed out any number of reasons it could have caught fire.

What maintenance should be carried out on electrical systems in cars?
I don't think I ever did any maintenance on any electrical system in any of the cars I have owned.

How does 'messing around with their engines cause fires more often than not?
What do you class as 'messing around'?

 

[Mojo]

Are you then saying that the fire service involved is telling a deliberate lie?

That's pretty much what she's been saying ever since they said it was a diesel vehicle.

 

[Andy_Ross]

They do what they are allowed to do.

Perhaps your son can provide the model and make of the original vehicle since he is not under any contractual obligation to keep schtum?

You dodged the question.

Are they telling deliberate lies when they say the fire started in a diesel car?

 

[theprestige]

How does 'messing around with their engines cause fires more often than not?
What do you class as 'messing around'?

'Owning shares in a company that makes EVs.'

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Vixen, while I am aware you have several people asking questions and addressing you with points of their own, I want you to actually deal with my point please, since you requested something specific of me which I dealt with. You attempted to handwave past it earlier, but as I noted, that handwave didn't actually address what my point was. Indeed, you conflated what I was actually stating with a different argument you were involved in, as is your way.

 

[Myriad]

It is very common in the UK, especially in areas of what could be seen as 'national security' and it is feasible a government in power will argue it might undermine confidence in a government policy of, for example, building huge lithium battery factories and circa £500m in grant subsidies that has already been paid out (not refundable). See here in wiki as to how it works:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_embargo

Yes, a news embargo is one of the cases that I described as completely normal. As the wiki article explains, an embargo is requested by a news source to not reveal what that source has released, under the threat of that source not being available as a source in the future if the embargo is broken. An embargo cannot be imposed by a third party regarding news the press already knows about from other sources.

But even if an embargo could have been imposed in this case, only the embargoed information is withheld. The source, or the government, or whoever, cannot embargo news of the existence of the embargo itself. At least, not without necessitating an infinite regress of additional embargoes. So please show where the UK press (or the press anywhere in the world) has reported that news about lithium battery fires has been embargoed.

Maybe the news media are just too lazy to report that, though, or don't think it would be of their audience's interest if they did. That might be worth investigating. So, which news outlets have you contacted to ask whether and by whom news about lithium battery fires has been embargoed? And what was their response?

 

[Steve]

That's pretty much what she's been saying ever since they said it was a diesel vehicle.

That is exactly what she has been saying ever since they said it was a diesel vehicle. She just, for some unknown reason, has an aversion to actually using the word "lying".

 

[smartcooky]

You seem very ignorant about such simple devices. Sprinklers emit anti-fire particles, without a sprinkler system in place fire particles will build up and eventually cause spontaneous fires. It's a well-known fact, really nothing more than basic physics, and I came top in a physics test when I as at my high school, so I am a physicist and know all about this subject.

Thanks Darat

These anti-fire particle you speak of must be sooper seekrit, because I can't find any mention of them in the interwebz. Do you think the media have been instructed not to say anything about them?

 

[Dabop]

Nope, that's a lie.

You claimed that the vehicle might have been a diesel converted to hybrid. I linked to you doing so in a post above. Why do you even lie about what you write let alone us?

If liars pants actually did catch on fire, this thread (not naming any specific poster here lol) would have started enough fires to destroy our entire civilisation... let alone a carpark...

I have seen one converted EV that (kinda) is a diesel hybrid- sometimes...
A Toyota Hilux that on his first long trip (4000km plus, towing a car trailer with another EV on THAT) stuck his diesel genpack on the back 'just in case' (it was never used), the public EV charging network was sufficient that he made the entire trip having never run in 'hybrid' mode lol

Says a lot that you can actually drive most EVs completely across Australia east to west and north to south (a huge country with a quite small population) just using the public charging network, and that network is still growing...

(the car just sorta visible in front of him was the first EV to drive across Australia, from west to east, back in 2014!!! (a home made EV MG!!!)

 

[Mojo]

You seem very ignorant about such simple devices. Sprinklers emit anti-fire particles...

It's antiphlogiston.

 

[smartcooky]

If liars pants actually did catch on fire, this thread (not naming any specific poster here lol) would have started enough fires to destroy our entire civilisation... let alone a carpark...

I have seen one converted EV that (kinda) is a diesel hybrid- sometimes...
A Toyota Hilux that on his first long trip (4000km plus, towing a car trailer with another EV on THAT) stuck his diesel genpack on the back 'just in case' (it was never used), the public EV charging network was sufficient that he made the entire trip having never run in 'hybrid' mode lol
[qimg]https://i.postimg.cc/fy5GNp8b/Screenshot-from-2021-05-22-22-25-29.png[/qimg]
Says a lot that you can actually drive most EVs completely across Australia east to west and north to south (a huge country with a quite small population) just using the public charging network, and that network is still growing...

(the car just sorta visible in front of him was the first EV to drive across Australia, from west to east, back in 2014!!! (a home made EV MG!!!)

1935 P-Type by the look of that mudguard?

 

[Steve]

Thanks Darat

These anti-fire particle you speak of must be sooper seekrit, because I can't find any mention of them in the interwebz. Do you think the media have been instructed not to say anything about them?

Orders direct from the unelected PM's office. Doncha know.

 

[smartcooky]

For all the sarcasm, some say, the lowest form of wit, here is the recommendation of the Merseyside Fire & Rescue Report re Kings Dock fire (Liverpool ECHO car park) 2018:

https://www.bafsa.org.uk/wp-content...er/2018/12/Merseyside-FRS-Car-Park-Report.pdf

Stop being obtuse. Beds F&RS said that a sprinkler system would have massively reduced the impact of the fire, which - hello?- destroyed 1,500 vehicles, despite the driver of the original vehicle being present at the time.

This still doesn't explain how a lack of sprinklers can cause a fire.

 

[phiwum]

Oh please. The fire was out of control within less than half an hour, with fire fighters overcome with fumes and having to leave the building. A diesel car fire is something a team of firefighters can put out within ten minutes.

There was a similar fire at Gatwick North Terminal. Eleven cars destroyed within minutes. News report: 'accidental ignition'. No mention it was a Tesla EV that was burnt to a shell.

Sorry, can we be explicit here?

Just tell me whether you agree or disagree with the following statement.

* The evidence strongly suggests that the initial vehicle was NOT a diesel ICE vehicle, despite what the current press releases allege.

Obviously, if you disagree agree, then honestly, one wonders whether the press releases or even the final report matter, since the authors are either deceitful or incompetent. Is that where you're leaning right now?

 

[phiwum]

An eyewitness supplied a photograph of it.

It must be a great photo to convince you that it's accurate. What's the difference between this eyewitness photo and the photos/videos in the Luton fire? How come an eyewitness photo is reliable enough in one case but not the other?

 

[zooterkin]

Sorry, can we be explicit here?

Just tell me whether you agree or disagree with the following statement.

* The evidence strongly suggests that the initial vehicle was NOT a diesel ICE vehicle, despite what the current press releases allege.

Obviously, if you disagree, then honestly, one wonders whether the press releases or even the final report matter, since the authors are either deceitful or incompetent. Is that where you're leaning right now?

Do you mean "agree" there?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

That is exactly what she has been saying ever since they said it was a diesel vehicle. She just, for some unknown reason, has an aversion to actually using the word "lying".

That would mean changing the storyline of the little movie playing in her head. Which is impossible. In the story, you remember, the fire brigade were not strictly lying, they were just using carefully chosen words to avoid lying about a lithium battery. This suffered a blow when they made it unambiguously clear it was a plain old diesel car. But it is a law of nature that the story remains true, so there must be some way in which they were still not lying even if it appears impossible. Hence today's bit about 'plausible deniability'.

 

[phiwum]

It is very common in the UK, especially in areas of what could be seen as 'national security' and it is feasible a government in power will argue it might undermine confidence in a government policy of, for example, building huge lithium battery factories and circa £500m in grant subsidies that has already been paid out (not refundable). See here in wiki as to how it works:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_embargo

Sure. That sounds like a national security issue, that does. They could totally get away with that.

 

[phiwum]

Do you mean "agree" there?

Of course, and thanks.

 

[smartcooky]

https://fullfact.org/online/electric-hybrid-did-not-start-luton-airport-car-park-fire/

What was claimed: The car that started the fire in the Luton Airport car park was electric.

Our verdict: Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service has said that the vehicle initially involved in the fire was diesel, and not a hybrid or electric car.

The local fire brigade, Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service, confirmed to Full Fact that the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel, not a hybrid.

Andrew Hopkinson, chief fire officer at Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service, previously told the media: “We have no intelligence at this stage to suggest that this was anything other than an accidental fire that started in one of the vehicles that had not long arrived at the airport. It was not an EV. This was a diesel powered vehicle.”​

Case closed. If there is any organization who will know what started any given fire, it will be the organization (in this case, the Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service) that extinguished it, and investigated the cause.

(Unless, of course, Vixen claims that the omniscient, omnipresent, all-powerful and nefarious "they" have instructed the Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service to lie to the public.

In fact, the vehicle that started the fire was a 2014 Range Rover Sport TDV6 SE (a turbocharged diesel)

https://www.landrovermonthly.co.uk/articles/news/the-truth-is-revealed/

There was a conspiracy theory that the car which started the fire was really an electric vehicle, despite the fact Andrew Hopkinson, chief fire officer for Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service, said: “It’s believed to be diesel-powered.” Furthermore there was actual footage of the car first alight, which, based on the registration plate, was a 2014 Range Rover Sport TDV6 SE.
​

Paraphrasing the late SG Collins:

Once you are forced to hypothesise whole new conspiracies to keep your conspiracy possible, you have stepped over into the realm of magic, requiring of you a deep and abiding faith in things you can never know.