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Transwomen are not Women - Part 14

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If I say I was born the "wrong" height and go do that (incredibly painful) surgery where they break your legs and reset them to make you taller, that's one thing.

If I say I was born the "wrong" height and all I do is demand everyone literally perceive me as 6 foot 1 when I'm objectively in reality only 5 foot 9, that's another.

We can still have debates about the validity of either one of those things, but they are not the same thing.
 
I see there is evidence that anti-psychotic drugs can successfully treat gender dysphoria.

This would suggest that treatment should be the first and primary option, not the knife and hormones or hormone blockers.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
If I say I was born the "wrong" height and go do that (incredibly painful) surgery where they break your legs and reset them to make you taller, that's one thing.

If I say I was born the "wrong" height and all I do is demand everyone literally perceive me as 6 foot 1 when I'm objectively in reality only 5 foot 9, that's another.

We can still have debates about the validity of either one of those things, but they are not the same thing.
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Someone who believes they are in the wrong body because their body is too short, and wants to undergo painful surgery to make themselves taller, should undergo a psychiatric treatment. Not surgery.
 
Hercules56 said:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8839957/
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Thanks. I had a quick read through the paper. It seems that this was identified as a possible case of monothematic delusion because 'he talked about having a sex change in a very intense way' there was an unusually strong conviction he was a woman that could not be shifted, and he lacked insight into what a sex change would actually entail (although they acknowledge that 'true transsexuals' often have similar strength of conviction).

It's also obvious from the paper that he had other issues besides gender dysphoria. I find it interesting though that the anti-psychotic did lead to resolution of dysphoria. This was published in 1996 and I can't see that it was ever followed up.

It is also debatable whether the side effects of long term anti-psychotic medication are better than side effects of medical transition.
 
Elaedith said:
Thanks. I had a quick read through the paper. It seems that this was identified as a possible case of monothematic delusion because 'he talked about having a sex change in a very intense way' there was an unusually strong conviction he was a woman that could not be shifted, and he lacked insight into what a sex change would actually entail (although they acknowledge that 'true transsexuals' often have similar strength of conviction).

It's also obvious from the paper that he had other issues besides gender dysphoria. I find it interesting though that the anti-psychotic did lead to resolution of dysphoria. This was published in 1996 and I can't see that it was ever followed up.

It is also debatable whether the side effects of long term anti-psychotic medication are better than side effects of medical transition.
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It would be considered intolerant bigotry if doctors do more widespread studies on the affects of antipsychotics to treat gender dysphoria.

We are supposed to be accepting and tolerant of trans issues, not looking for medicinal cures.

So they say.
 
JoeMorgue said:
You're not the victim here and you don't have the moral or augmentative high ground.
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If I were to accuse someone of failing to meet a challenge which they accepted, I would at least be willing to to provide evidence of where and when they accepted the challenge. Since you choose not to provide evidence, I will assume that you are (once again) just making **** up.
 
If someone woke up tomorrow and said "I have a deep, personal sense of identity that I am left handed even though I write, pitch, draw, shoot, and open doors with my right hand" nobody would take them seriously. "Identity" as I keep saying is not just a way to make something you want to be into something you are (or are a special kind of "are")

If someone woke up tomorrow and said "I have a deep, personal sense of identity that I am left handed even though I write, pitch, draw, shoot, and open doors with my right hand" and then proceeded to cut their right arm off in order to force themselves to be left handed they'd be sanctioned under the Mental Care Act.

We keep getting told "Sex is different because I say so" but it never goes any further than that. We never get told why beyond just further and more emphatic "because we say so."

"Identity" is not THIS sacrosanct no matter how many adjectives you put in front of it. "It's a deeply personal deeply help personal deeply personal internal personal deeply deep deepity deep held personal belief."

"I want to be left handed" makes perfect sense.
"I want to be left handed therefore I can declare myself either fully left handed or some special adjacent kind of left handed without changed which hand I actually use" is gibberish.
"I present as a left handed person in every way that isn't which hand I use" is gibberish.
"I live the life of a left handed person in every way that isn't which hadnd I use" is gibberish.

The entire concept of the "Self Identify" subtype of Transgender is saying exactly that. "I identify as a man in everyway except having a penis." We keep told told that is some special and different thing but never why.
 
Elaedith said:
This isn’t how good scientific debate happens’: academics on culture of fear in gender medicine research.
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Reading just a bit between the lines on the final report, one gets the sense that Cass & co. would love to stand up a load of new services but are having a fair bit of trouble finding practitioners who are not either (1) avoiding gender medicine due to the culture of fear or (2) unquestioningly subscribed to a total affirmation model. It's going to prove difficult to study different treatment modalities if people are either shying away from the field or else berating you for daring to question WPATH "best practices" as they stand at present.
 
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d4m10n said:
Who actually said this? I suspect you're just making **** up again.
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Then what else do we talk about "identity" in the same way? Provide examples. In your own words. Without using the word "complicated."

Nobody has an "identity" that is different to what they objectively are about anything EXCEPT sex.

If someone says "I'm 5 foot 9 but I identity as 6 foot 1" literally nobody would be expecting to think of or perceive of that person any differently.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Then what else do we talk about "identity" in the same way?
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I asked you who said the highlighted quote or anything remotely like it; you replied with this nonsensical non-sequitur. Try responding to things people actually say or write themselves instead of continually making **** up.
 
d4m10n said:
I asked you who said the highlighted quote or anything remotely like it; you replied with this nonsensical non-sequitur. Try responding to things people actually say or write themselves instead of continually making **** up.
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I am asking simple questions that are related to the topic. Don't get angry at me because you can't answer them.

Again I ask. Why is Sex the only thing where someone's internal sense of identity should matter?

Nobody has a "height gender" that is separate from their "height sex."
 
JoeMorgue said:
Again the simple fact that literally nobody can explain to us what actual, objective factor of "being a woman" a trans-woman has to take on to BE a woman and at this point it's just one big performative act of glibly not answering that question is telling.

What is the difference, REAL difference, between a Cis-man and a Trans-woman? The question can not get more fundamental then that.
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How about?

A Cis-man is a biological male.

A Trans-woman a biological male, with a mental illness that causes them to believe they are a female.
 
smartcooky said:
https://www.reuters.com/sports/naia-bans-transgender-athletes-us-collegiate-sports-2024-04-08/

The National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics on Monday banned transgender women from competing in women's sports, taking a more hardline stance than other athletic bodies that allow trans athletes to compete based on testosterone levels.
The NAIA, representing mostly small colleges, is less influential than the larger National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) but its decision carries some political weight in the wider U.S. debate about transgender rights.
"Only NAIA student-athletes whose biological sex is female may participate in NAIA-sponsored female sports," the association said in its policy.​

The vote was 20-0
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Is that a faint glow of sanity I see, or just a mirage?
 
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