Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

[P.J. Denyer]

I drive an Audi. But I drive it in Utah, where all drivers are rude regardless of what they drive.

Yeah, to be honest British roads & American roads are completely different things. Beyond the obvious 'side of the road' thing. Standard British country roads are between three inches wider & three inches narrower than required for two cars to pass.

 

[ZiprHead]

There's a quite well-known psychology experiment which conducted a poll of something like 2,000 drivers, and something like 3/4 of those polled considered themselves to be above-average or significantly above-average drivers.....

Anyhow, I drive a Mercedes coupe and I most certainly am a very good (and considerate) driver

I don't claim to have above average skills. But I do try to be very polite when driving.

 

[Vixen]

It's pretty obviously articulated already. He was kind enough to highlight four specific statements in your post and explain why the claim made there is not convincing.

1. Judgment based on expertise you don't have. I wrote fairly extensively a day or so ago on the hidden premise in many of your arguments that presumes a foundation for judgment that in some cases you can't provide, and that in other cases we know from evidence you don't have.

2. A reference to the 15-minute city conspiracy theory in which people will be compelled to give up automobiles.

3. A reference to your conspiracy theory that officials are going to great lengths to cover up failures in electric vehicles.

4. Factually incorrect statement that electric vehicles are generally more heavy than comparably sized internal-combustion powered vehicles.

The reasoning is the premises upon which you are basing your conclusions vary between provably false at worst and suspiciously conjectural at best. Any further questions?

1. He did not articulate his reasoning as to why in his view I had no understanding at all in Change Management, when I have carried out industry case studies into the matter and have a diploma in Business Strategy, which includes that topic. He is claiming to know better than me and he should explain why.

2. That is an actual belief of some groups of people, albeit not my belief. It helps explain why some people are resistant to the idea of EV's.

3. See the BBC link Jack by the Hedge provided. Suddenly they are referring to the effect of EV's on car park fires, which until now has been carefully avoided, with the denials that EV's had anything at all to do with the Luton Airport car park fire cause.

4. Citation, please.

 

[JimOfAllTrades]

1. He did not articulate his reasoning as to why in his view I had no understanding at all in Change Management, when I have carried out industry case studies into the matter and have a diploma in Business Strategy, which includes that topic. He is claiming to know better than me and he should explain why.

Wait, so now a diploma makes a difference? I have two masters worth of life and business experience and part of a degree in electronics where we had to learn to manage the change of components on the board. Where's my respect?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... See the BBC link Jack by the Hedge provided. Suddenly they are referring to the effect of EV's on car park fires, which until now has been carefully avoided...

No. Not "suddenly". Not "carefully avoided".

These are inventions in your head which only serve to prop up the conspiracy story you want this to be.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

There's a quite well-known psychology experiment which conducted a poll of something like 2,000 drivers, and something like 3/4 of those polled considered themselves to be above-average or significantly above-average drivers.....



Anyhow, I drive a Mercedes coupe and I most certainly am a very good (and considerate) driver

It's long been my view that most drivers are indeed far better than average drivers in the small proportion of the time they're actually paying any attention to the fact they're driving.

 

[SpitfireIX]

It's long been my view that most drivers are indeed far better than average drivers in the small proportion of the time they're actually paying any attention to the fact they're driving.

I'm sure you'll find that most drivers are at least above average when there's a marked police car nearby.

 

[catsmate]

It's pretty obviously articulated already. He was kind enough to highlight four specific statements in your post and explain why the claim made there is not convincing.

1. Judgment based on expertise you don't have. I wrote fairly extensively a day or so ago on the hidden premise in many of your arguments that presumes a foundation for judgment that in some cases you can't provide, and that in other cases we know from evidence you don't have.

2. A reference to the 15-minute city conspiracy theory in which people will be compelled to give up automobiles.

3. A reference to your conspiracy theory that officials are going to great lengths to cover up failures in electric vehicles.

4. Factually incorrect statement that electric vehicles are generally more heavy than comparably sized internal-combustion powered vehicles.

The reasoning is the premises upon which you are basing your conclusions vary between provably false at worst and suspiciously conjectural at best. Any further questions?

Thank you. Frankly I had neither the patience nor the inclination to deal with yet another round of Vixen's idiotic ramblings.

One additional note re point 4; the nonsense about EVs being heavier has become yet another element of the anti-EV conspiracy theories. Apparently, according to the kooks, they'll destroy roads and bridges.
Unlike 44 tonne artics.....

 

[catsmate]

Wait, so now a diploma makes a difference? I have two masters worth of life and business experience and part of a degree in electronics where we had to learn to manage the change of components on the board. Where's my respect?

I've SA'd major ICT projects, in the hundreds-of-thousands of moronsusers and billions of Euro in value and watched and aided in Change Management. It's fascinating, though much of it is idiot management.

 

[JayUtah]

1. He did not articulate his reasoning as to why in his view I had no understanding at all in Change Management...

Because your claim to expertise in this case is no more credible than all your other claims to expertise.

2. That is an actual belief of some groups of people, albeit not my belief.

It's still a conspiracy theory.

3. See the BBC link Jack by the Hedge provided. Suddenly they are referring to the effect of EV's on car park fires, which until now has been carefully avoided...

That framing is entirely your imagination.

4. Citation, please.

Asked and answered.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Thank you. Frankly I had neither the patience nor the inclination to deal with yet another round of Vixen's idiotic ramblings.

One additional note re point 4; the nonsense about EVs being heavier has become yet another element of the anti-EV conspiracy theories. Apparently, according to the kooks, they'll destroy roads and bridges.
Unlike 44 tonne artics.....

Artics like this one?

 

[catsmate]

Artics like this one?

[qimg]https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_2717266098dcc7f2cb.jpg[/qimg]

 

[Mojo]

Artics like this one?

[qimg]https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_2717266098dcc7f2cb.jpg[/qimg]

Yes, you can tell it's not an EV because it can be lifted on a jack without taking it in to a laboratory garage with special lifting equipment.

 

[Vixen]

Wait, so now a diploma makes a difference? I have two masters worth of life and business experience and part of a degree in electronics where we had to learn to manage the change of components on the board. Where's my respect?

I am not asking for respect. If all a poster can write is 'b*ll*cks', 'drivel', 'grow up' or , then of course one would expect a proper explanation for their dismissiveness. Otherwise, what is the point in debating anything?

At least I explain my views.

 

[Vixen]

No. Not "suddenly". Not "carefully avoided".

These are inventions in your head which only serve to prop up the conspiracy story you want this to be.

What do you understand by the following quote:

While not started by an electric vehicle, the fire at Luton Airport last year did end up involving EVs, he says, and laid bare the potential consequences of fires spreading from one vehicle to another.

BBC

 

[Vixen]

Thank you. Frankly I had neither the patience nor the inclination to deal with yet another round of Vixen's idiotic ramblings.

One additional note re point 4; the nonsense about EVs being heavier has become yet another element of the anti-EV conspiracy theories. Apparently, according to the kooks, they'll destroy roads and bridges.
Unlike 44 tonne artics.....

So are you claiming you know better than this:

Vehicles are adding poundage as the auto industry goes electric — and that's problematic for traffic safety, parking garages and roads.

<snip>


Threat level: Safety watchdogs are raising concerns after the recent deadly collapse of a parking garage in New York City called attention to the challenge of creaking infrastructure.

Traffic safety is particularly concerning. In crashes, the "baseline fatality probability" increases 47% for every 1,000 additional pounds in the vehicle — and the fatality risk is even higher if the striking vehicle is a light truck (SUV, pickup truck, or minivan), according to a 2011 study published by the National Bureau of Economic Research.

Axios

 

[Andy_Ross]

So are you claiming you know better than this:


Axios

As already pointed out, cars are getting bighger and heavier whatever the power source.

I have had a number of Jaguars over the years, my favourites being th XJS coupe from the 80s and 90s.
They are far heavier than any of the Tesla EVs.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

What do you understand by the following quote

I understand you're using it to construct a straw man argument. The notion that something has "suddenly" changed is your invention. The notion that any discussion of EV fires has until now been "carefully avoided" is your invention.

Making **** up and telling us that's the story is not persuasive because it is not true. You have your little X-files conspiracy theory tale in your head and it's so exciting you can't tell when it's your own confirmation bias making it look like all kinds of stuff supports your fantasy.


For the removal of doubt this interminable thread has not been about EV fires not happening, nor about EV fires being easy to extinguish nor about EVs not being burned up in the Luton fire.

This thread has been about all the cranks insisting that the diesel car fire which started the conflagration was an EV fire (because, they insisted, it looked exactly like one and they should know because their brother in law works in a car showroom) and the authorities were conspiring to cover up the fact it was an EV fire because <fantastical reasons>.

So don't give us any of your nonsense about "suddenly they admit - EVs can catch fire!". The thread is not about that. It's about cranks being persistently and confidently wrong.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I am not asking for respect. If all a poster can write is 'b*ll*cks', 'drivel', 'grow up' or , then of course one would expect a proper explanation for their dismissiveness. Otherwise, what is the point in debating anything?

At least I explain my views.

No you don't, and you whine endlessly when we challenge you.

I asked multiple times in these threads for evidence a diesel can be converted to a hybrid and you repeatedly sent links that said nothing of the sort as if that would answer me.

 

[theprestige]

My understanding is that EVs are heavier by volume than their ICE counterparts.