A voice of reason…

[Solus]

Seeing all this furor over cartoons on both sides of the issues. Isn’t time everyone calm down and start thinking rationally. It’s not just Muslims who are overreacting to this whole cartoon farce.

I remember 9/11 back then I was young and my immediate thought was “lets” nuke mecca and medina show those damn muslims who do they think are dealing with. I think I about 16. That was my emotional childish nationationlistic gut reaction.

Age has brought wisdom you must look at the big picture. Forget your own nation and look at yourself as a human being a small part of a greater whole. Otherwise you join the ranks of countless others have who have made the same mistakes in the past. Of endless examples look at ancient greece. Forgive me I’m bit sketcky on my precise details of history but scocrates was the one voice of dissent in the war between Athens (and I forget the other country). Perhaps the greatest thinker of all time put to death for disagreeing with the majority. Always we must remain rational, do not get caught up in fervor.

Anger accomplishes nothing, scapegoating accomphsies nothing. All this veiled muslim bashing I see here is ridiclous. How many of you actually know muslims? How do you know what the average muslim feels or thinks on this issue. To brand a whole group of people as terrorits is preposterous. We must distance our selves from these events try be an impartial obsever only then you remain somewhat objective.

I don’t know the answer to problem of religious extremeists but blaming all muslems creating an us VS them enviroment is not the way to go.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I'll just wade through the strawmen to point out that Socrates was put to death for corrupting the youth of the city and for atheism, not for being "the one voice of dissent in the war". The war, by the way, was long over with at the time of Socrates' trial. He had fought in it as a soldier when he was younger.

 

[Jas]

Seeing all this furor over cartoons on both sides of the issues. Isn’t time everyone calm down and start thinking rationally. It’s not just Muslims who are overreacting to this whole cartoon farce.

I remember 9/11 back then I was young and my immediate thought was “lets” nuke mecca and medina show those damn muslims who do they think are dealing with. I think I about 16. That was my emotional childish nationationlistic gut reaction.

Twin towers vs. editorial cartoons.

Why didn't I think of that analogy?

 

[Solus]

Screw it ok MY history is bloody lousy! It was some general I was thinking of not socrates HEh but still better than 99% of population I take soliance in that.

My point IS though I seems like people here and everywhere I look are overreacting competely. It’s out of line, now it’s suddenly ok to make fun of mulisms “we’ are no better than they are and I hope I’m not the only person that sees this.

My point on mentioning 9/11 is that we should not overreact we need to be reasonable kneejerk reactions have caused great harm in the past. I was caught in a fevor once before I learned to moderate myself that's why I mentioned nuking mecca and medina that's the problem of losing yourself to anger and nationalism.

We are all human beings the “our” culture vs theirs is not productive. It leads to wars and other ghastly things. And I missed big on the socrates thing but I at least can admit I'm an idiot sometimes

 

[TragicMonkey]

Screw it ok MY history is bloody lousy! It was some general I thinking of not socrates HEh but still better than 99% of population I take soliance in that.

My point IS though I seems like people here are overracting competely.

That is your opinion. Some others here share it. Still others do not. Repeating it will not make it so. If you have a substantive argument to make in favor of proving your opinion to be the correct one, do so.

It’s out of line now it’s suddenly ok to make fun of mulisms “we’ are no better than they are and I hope I’m not the only person that sees this.

And who has been "making fun" of Muslims? Is criticism of Islam "making fun"? Is criticism of the actions of fanatics "making fun"?

My point on mentioning 9/11 is that we should not overreact we need to be reasonable kneejerk reactions have caused great harm in the past.

No kidding. The difference of opinion is over what constitutes appropriate and inappropriate reaction.

I was caught in a fevor once before I learned to moderate myself that's why I mentioned nuking mecca and medina that's the problem of losing yourself to anger and nationalism.

We are human beings the “our” culture vs theirs is not productive. It leads to wars and other ghastly things.

You interpret this as a question of nationalism? That is curious. Why?

And as for "us versus them", it seems to be that the ones holding that view are the ones burning embassies. Unproductive? Maybe a little! As for "wars and other ghastly things", sometimes they are necessary.

The problem is that standing there bleating "how dreadful!" accomplishes little.

 

[Jas]

My point on mentioning 9/11 is that we should not overreact we need to be reasonable kneejerk reactions have caused great harm in the past. I was caught in a fevor once before I learned to moderate myself that's why I mentioned nuking mecca and medina that's the problem of losing yourself to anger and nationalism.

I am quite certain that 9/11 did not see the Americans reacting in this manner. There were some incidents, but they were pretty roundly condemned.

ETA: How many embassies were firebombed by Jews after an arab newspaper declared that purim treats were made from the blood of arabs and christians, btw? And how many threats have been made to behead Betty Bowers? Or the creators of Landover Baptist, for that matter? Normal Bob Smith?

 

[Solus]

That is your opinion. Some others here share it. Still others do not. Repeating it will not make it so. If you have a substantive argument to make in favor of proving your opinion to be the correct one, do so.



And who has been "making fun" of Muslims? Is criticism of Islam "making fun"? Is criticism of the actions of fanatics "making fun"?



No kidding. The difference of opinion is over what constitutes appropriate and inappropriate reaction.



You interpret this as a question of nationalism? That is curious. Why?

And as for "us versus them", it seems to be that the ones holding that view are the ones burning embassies. Unproductive? Maybe a little! As for "wars and other ghastly things", sometimes they are necessary.

The problem is that standing there bleating "how dreadful!" accomplishes little.

OK I'll tackle this one

That is your opinion. Some others here share it. Still others do not. Repeating it will not make it so. If you have a substantive argument to make in favor of proving your opinion to be the correct one, do so.

I admit at the moment I do not have a substantive arguement to make in favor of proving my position... To do that would requrie I collect data, in essense write a research paper attempting to prove in a concrete matter my suppostion.

Now I'd be willing to do that provided I get a date from a nice girl, or a large montary compensation. Otherwise I'm not willing to invest the time to write a 20 pg research paper to prove my point so...


Next then:

And who has been "making fun" of Muslims? Is criticism of Islam "making fun"? Is criticism of the actions of fanatics "making fun"?

It seems now it's ok to call all muslims terrorists I see statements here for like this example: if the moderates are not speaking up all muslims are terrorists that's what I mean.

next

The problem is that standing there bleating "how dreadful!" accomplishes little.

True though my point is to provide some perspective that you stand away from your own culture or even humanness and look at the issue objectively.
and I'm glad indeed that I'm not in a postion of resposabilty to decide this issues I would go insane. I have no solutions to this problem

 

[epepke]

It seems now it's ok to call all muslims terrorists I see statements here for like this example: if the moderates are not speaking up all muslims are terrorists that's what I mean.

There is concern that the moderates are not speaking up.

That does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists, if you know how to think.

I suspect you do know how to think, and you are just using a straw man.

In any event, this is not a voice of reason. It is a voice of the Middle Ground. And frankly, the Middle Ground would involve only half of the embassies' getting burned down.

 

[Skeptic]

Twin towers vs. editorial cartoons.

Why didn't I think of that analogy?

Not to mention that nobody torched the Iraqi or Afghani or any other Muslim embassy over it.

 

[Jas]

Not to mention that nobody torched the Iraqi or Afghani or any other Muslim embassy over it.

Yes, the similarities between the two are indeed striking.

 

[Solus]

Damn I really need to be more articulate here it seems ambiguity and vaguness are not the modus operdi I see.

For future reference I will be competely clear in want I mean in or I won’t bother posting such controversal topics. I actually have clear ideas in my head but it’s hard to articlate in just few mintues so instead I write large sweeping general statements without being specfeic.

Ok people next time I post a controversal topic I’ll be sure to be prepared for serious debate I can’t just give 10% here it seems.

Or maybe I need to find a less intelligent forum ah but I like a challenge.

 

[epepke]

Yes, the similarities between the two are indeed striking.

Yep. Thousands of people dead on 9/11. Thousands of innocent soybeans killed to make printer's ink for cartoons. Won't someone please think of the soybeans?

 

[Mycroft]

I remember 9/11 back then I was young and my immediate thought was “lets” nuke mecca and medina show those damn muslims who do they think are dealing with. I think I about 16. That was my emotional childish nationationlistic gut reaction.

Which is why important decisions on foreign policy are not left to 16 year olds.

However, I fail to see how a large number of angry and shocked messages on an internet forum constitute an “over-reaction” to global riots, death threats, and burning embassies.

 

[Kopji]

hi Solus,
Moderate Muslims who share my views are in jail for trying to be reasonable. Moderate Christian voices who hold my views have been silenced.

I consider myself sorta middle of the road when I say we have all been held hostage by the priests and mullahs for much too long.

 

[epepke]

hi Solus,
Moderate Muslims who share my views are in jail for trying to be reasonable. Moderate Christian voices who hold my views have been silenced.

And if that be true, nota bene it would be the moderates that are colling their heels in jail. What would that say?

 

[Art Vandelay]

Age has brought wisdom you must look at the big picture.

Let's see: you're about 21 years old, you have trouble with the English language, and you're telling us to listen to the pearls of wisdom that your age has brought. Might want to lay off the condescension.

Anger accomplishes nothing,

That's a silly platitude. Our nation is one founded on anger. Without anger, we would have simply paid those taxes without representation. We would have forgotton the Alamo. And December 7 would live in obscurity.

scapegoating accomphsies nothing.

Not if you're actually being attacked by goats.

All this veiled muslim bashing I see here is ridiclous.

Veiled? What veil? I think the Muslim basging has been rather open.

How many of you actually know muslims?

I don't know any Nazis. Doesn't keep me from bashing them.

How do you know what the average muslim feels or thinks on this issue.

"What impression Muslims as a whole give to me" seems as good a measure of "average" as any. Perhaps we should have polled German citizenry on their opinion of the Nazis prior to invading?

To brand a whole group of people as terrorits is preposterous.

So it would be preposterous to call Al Qaeda terrorists?

I don’t know the answer to problem of religious extremeists but blaming all muslems creating an us VS them enviroment is not the way to go.

Assigning responsibility is the way to go. Every Muslim is responsible for the excesses of the religion. Clearly, there is a lack of will among the "average" Muslim to stop this. It's rather silly to blame us for creating an "us VS them enviroment" when they're attacking us.

 

[mgidm86]

Damn I really need to be more articulate here it seems ambiguity and vaguness are not the modus operdi I see.

Correct-amoondoooo! This is a skeptics forum.

For future reference I will be competely clear in want I mean in or I won’t bother posting such controversal topics. I actually have clear ideas in my head but it’s hard to articlate in just few mintues so instead I write large sweeping general statements without being specfeic.

Ok people next time I post a controversal topic I’ll be sure to be prepared for serious debate I can’t just give 10% here it seems.

Or maybe I need to find a less intelligent forum ah but I like a challenge.

Awww stick around. Welcome to the forum!

 

[Solus]

What’s with the personal attacks and hostility here did I insult anyone of you?
I don’t understand this hostility. I’m simply posting my point of view and I get insulted for it. Forgive me for having an opinon that is contray to the majority of people on this forum.

And yeah it’s not particually well thought out or written but I never thought I’d get such hostile reaction or I might put more thought into it. But I just don’t understand all the criticism and insults as I don’t think I’ve written anything that merits it.

 

[epepke]

What’s with the personal attacks and hostility here did I insult anyone of you?
I don’t understand this hostility. I’m simply posting my point of view and I get insulted for it. Forgive me for having an opinon that is contray to the majority of people on this forum.

And yeah it’s not particually well thought out or written but I never thought I’d get such hostile reaction or I might put more thought into it. But I just don’t understand all the criticism and insults as I don’t think I’ve written anything that merits it.

Somebody call the...

 

[RandFan]

What’s with the personal attacks and hostility here did I insult anyone of you?
I don’t understand this hostility. I’m simply posting my point of view and I get insulted for it. Forgive me for having an opinon that is contray to the majority of people on this forum.

And yeah it’s not particually well thought out or written but I never thought I’d get such hostile reaction or I might put more thought into it. But I just don’t understand all the criticism and insults as I don’t think I’ve written anything that merits it.

Yeah, this was my exact reaction to my first thread 10,000 posts ago. I wrote Linda and demanded that I be removed from the forum. Of course I thought better about it.

It is your choice but if you stick around you might actually learn something worthwile.

Welcome to the forum. But if this doesn't help then I will give you my standard response.

JREF isn't for everyone. We have a nasty habit of not suffering foolish ideas gladly. If you are looking for a caring environment where all ideas are nurtured and respected then you are definitely in the wrong place. You might want to try www.mylittlepony.com. They don't have a forum but they do have lots of pastel colors.