• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Cont: General UK Politics V Suella Strikes Back

Status
Not open for further replies.
Andy_Ross said:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24194006.police-scotland-hate-crime-training-leaked/

Reading through play scripts in search of offence, raiding comedy clubs and dive bars to shut down dissent , this is the stuff of every authoritarian government that has ever existed.
Click to expand...

It is also not true. Police Scotland has not told cops to target comedians and actors. The training pack merely stated that public performances can be places where hate is being spread and that cops may have to investigate complaints about performances.

It is a bad law that is putting the police in a very difficult position, especially as they have to second guess what the courts will eventually decide what is criminal hate.
 
Samson said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liz-truss-political-comeback-prime-minister-509d6g56p

This picture is a repellant way that hate speech may flourish with no sanction.
I am fine with it, but that Islamist running Scotland might consider how his visage could foment anxiety if cast in this vein.
Click to expand...

You'll be providing some evidence that Humza Yousaf is an Islamist?

I wonder what language you might have used if Kate Forbes had won, given her views do not represent mainstrean UK-ian Christianity?
 
Carrot Flower King said:
You'll be providing some evidence that Humza Yousaf is an Islamist?

I wonder what language you might have used if Kate Forbes had won, given her views do not represent mainstrean UK-ian Christianity?
Click to expand...
His hate speech law makes it a crime to criticise Islam, and makes it mandatory to deploy police time to examine any public complaint against some one like me who defines the practice as a mysogynist and wicked cult.
Tell me it ain't so with evidence.
I have taken note of many females who have
1. Left the cult with great danger to their lives.
2. Too scared to do so.
Is their another religion in the UK people are fearful to leave?
Is there another religion that blackmails prisoners into joining for their safety in captivity?

https://youtu.be/i9JM7ImZOUM?si=xq021ZuEvAkumY_P

Talk about sleep walking to defeat.
 
Darat said:
Paywalled - can you explain what point you are trying to make with that link?
Click to expand...
The picture is chosen to present Liz Truss as a freak.
This is a misuse of the profession of journalism, whatever is thought of her.
I am surprised it is paywalled, maybe I have free views up my sleeve. I will try to post a screen shot to make my point.
 
Last edited:
Samson said:
His hate speech law makes it a crime to criticise Islam, and makes it mandatory to deploy police time to examine any public complaint against some one like me who defines the practice as a mysogynist and wicked cult.
Tell me it ain't so with evidence.
Click to expand...
Tell me it is so with evidence.
I have taken note of many females who have
1. Left the cult with great danger to their lives.
2. Too scared to do so.
Is their another religion in the UK people are fearful to leave?
Is there another religion that blackmails prisoners into joining for their safety in captivity?

https://youtu.be/i9JM7ImZOUM?si=xq021ZuEvAkumY_P

Talk about sleep walking to defeat.
Click to expand...

GBeebies does not count as evidence. Ofcom has repeatedly found them guilty of bias.
 
Samson said:
The picture is chosen to present Liz Truss as a freak.
This is a misuse of the profession of journalism, whatever is thought of her.
I am surprised it is paywalled, maybe I have free views up my sleeve. I will try to post a screen shot to make my point.
Click to expand...

Liz Truss is a freak. We’ve had to live with her for a decade so I’m quite happy in saying that. But what political point are you trying to make? Remember this is a politics thread.
 
Samson said:
His hate speech law makes it a crime to criticise Islam, and makes it mandatory to deploy police time to examine any public complaint against some one like me who defines the practice as a mysogynist and wicked cult.
Tell me it ain't so with evidence.
I have taken note of many females who have
1. Left the cult with great danger to their lives.
2. Too scared to do so.
Is their another religion in the UK people are fearful to leave?
Is there another religion that blackmails prisoners into joining for their safety in captivity?

https://youtu.be/i9JM7ImZOUM?si=xq021ZuEvAkumY_P

Talk about sleep walking to defeat.
Click to expand...

The legal precedents have already been set, these happened after the E&W laws were passed (the last time I did anything active politically was in opposition to that legislation ) our freedom of expression is still guaranteed regardless of these laws. Nothing you are afraid of will come to pass because of these laws, they can’t supersede our constitutional rights.
 
Last edited:
Samson said:
His hate speech law makes it a crime to criticise Islam, and makes it mandatory to deploy police time to examine any public complaint against some one like me who defines the practice as a mysogynist and wicked cult.
Tell me it ain't so with evidence.
...
Click to expand...

Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021 here;

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/section/4

This part is very similar to existing statutory breach of the peace and offensive communications legislation;

"...behaves in a manner that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, or
(ii)communicates to another person material that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, and
...(i)in doing so, the person intends to stir up hatred..."

That is against people defined as;

"3)The characteristics are—
(a)age,
(b)disability,
(c)religion or, in the case of a social or cultural group, perceived religious affiliation,
(d)sexual orientation,
(e)transgender identity,
(f)variations in sex characteristics."

Then come the defences

"(4)It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to show that the behaviour or the communication of the material was, in the particular circumstances, reasonable.

(5)For the purposes of subsection (4), in determining whether behaviour or communication was reasonable, particular regard must be had to the importance of the right to freedom of expression by virtue of Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, including the general principle that the right applies to the expression of information or ideas that offend, shock or disturb."

Now, show me how you would break that law by criticising Islam's attitude towards women and those who do not want to be Muslim and where it requires the police to investigate all complaints by Muslims.
 
Nessie said:
Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021 here;

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/section/4

This part is very similar to existing statutory breach of the peace and offensive communications legislation;

"...behaves in a manner that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, or
(ii)communicates to another person material that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, and
...(i)in doing so, the person intends to stir up hatred..."

That is against people defined as;

"3)The characteristics are—
(a)age,
(b)disability,
(c)religion or, in the case of a social or cultural group, perceived religious affiliation,
(d)sexual orientation,
(e)transgender identity,
(f)variations in sex characteristics."

Then come the defences

"(4)It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to show that the behaviour or the communication of the material was, in the particular circumstances, reasonable.

(5)For the purposes of subsection (4), in determining whether behaviour or communication was reasonable, particular regard must be had to the importance of the right to freedom of expression by virtue of Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, including the general principle that the right applies to the expression of information or ideas that offend, shock or disturb."

Now, show me how you would break that law by criticising Islam's attitude towards women and those who do not want to be Muslim and where it requires the police to investigate all complaints by Muslims.
Click to expand...


Maybe Samson intends to stir up hatred by being threatening, abusive or insulting.
 
I think Samson has fallen for those who are opposed to the law and how they have misrepresented what it says. Scotland already has this law

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2010/13/section/38

"38Threatening or abusive behaviour

(1)A person (“A”) commits an offence if—
(a)A behaves in a threatening or abusive manner,
(b)the behaviour would be likely to cause a reasonable person to suffer fear or alarm, and
(c)A intends by the behaviour to cause fear or alarm or is reckless as to whether the behaviour would cause fear or alarm."

And this law;

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/127

"127Improper use of public electronic communications network

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—
(a)sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character; or
(b)causes any such message or matter to be so sent.
(2)A person is guilty of an offence if, for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another, he—
[F1(a)sends by means of a public electronic communications network, a message that he knows to be false,]
[F1(b)causes such a message to be sent; or]
(c)persistently makes use of a public electronic communications network."

The Hate crime act just adds on to that, for the purposes of spreading hate regarding people due to their religious beliefs, sexual orientation etc. How that will work in practice has yet to be seen, but some are being deliberately mischievous, by suggesting any form of criticism is now illegal, or in JK Rowling's case, lots of people are predicting she will go to prison because she has referred to trans women as men.

But the prosecution has to prove hate, rather than being critical, which is a defence under the Hate Act.
 
Nessie said:
I think Samson has fallen for those who are opposed to the law and how they have misrepresented what it says. Scotland already has this law

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2010/13/section/38

"38Threatening or abusive behaviour

(1)A person (“A”) commits an offence if—
(a)A behaves in a threatening or abusive manner,
(b)the behaviour would be likely to cause a reasonable person to suffer fear or alarm, and
(c)A intends by the behaviour to cause fear or alarm or is reckless as to whether the behaviour would cause fear or alarm."

And this law;

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/127

"127Improper use of public electronic communications network

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—
(a)sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character; or
(b)causes any such message or matter to be so sent.
(2)A person is guilty of an offence if, for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another, he—
[F1(a)sends by means of a public electronic communications network, a message that he knows to be false,]
[F1(b)causes such a message to be sent; or]
(c)persistently makes use of a public electronic communications network."

The Hate crime act just adds on to that, for the purposes of spreading hate regarding people due to their religious beliefs, sexual orientation etc. How that will work in practice has yet to be seen, but some are being deliberately mischievous, by suggesting any form of criticism is now illegal, or in JK Rowling's case, lots of people are predicting she will go to prison because she has referred to trans women as men.

But the prosecution has to prove hate, rather than being critical, which is a defence under the Hate Act.
Click to expand...

Misrepresentation is the game plan now, look how the Tories renamed their Twitter feed to "Factcheck UK" during the party leader's debate, lied about (their own policy) ULEZ so the ill informed would think Sadiq Kahn would force them all to buy a new car and targeted Facebook users with thousands of ads 88% of which were later found to be misleading during the last election.
 
Samson said:
His hate speech law makes it a crime to criticise Islam, and makes it mandatory to deploy police time to examine any public complaint against some one like me who defines the practice as a mysogynist and wicked cult.
Tell me it ain't so with evidence.
I have taken note of many females who have
1. Left the cult with great danger to their lives.
2. Too scared to do so.
Is their another religion in the UK people are fearful to leave?
Is there another religion that blackmails prisoners into joining for their safety in captivity?

https://youtu.be/i9JM7ImZOUM?si=xq021ZuEvAkumY_P

Talk about sleep walking to defeat.
Click to expand...

Islamist definition - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism

Now, where does Yusaf fit into that?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom