Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[dirtywick]

OK, I was hardly going to go actively searching for it. If there's no rape porn on PH, or any legal porn sites, has is PH contributing to "rape culture"

well i'm not going to say there's none, much like underage content it's probably being uploaded or used to share. by the it i'm about to use being not just limited to rape but that it encompasses a lot of violent, abusive, or non-consenual content, it is not something that's like categorized or tagged as a genre like many other fetishes. so it's not something on the site you'll just find by browsing or be able to search up easily, or displayed on the front page when you load up the site or some such like many, many other fetishes and categories.

 

[Poem]

The British Journal of Criminology
Sexual violence as a sexual script in mainstream online pornography (4th April 2021)

Abstract
This article examines the ways in which mainstream pornography positions sexual violence as a normative sexual script by analysing the video titles found on the landing pages of the three most popular pornography websites in the United Kingdom. The study draws on the largest research sample of online pornographic content to date and is unique in its focus on the content immediately advertised to a new user. We found that one in eight titles shown to first-time users on the first page of mainstream porn sites describe sexual activity that constitutes sexual violence. Our findings raise serious questions about the extent of criminal material easily and freely available on mainstream pornography websites and the efficacy of current regulatory mechanisms.

 

[Poem]

Wikipedia:
Sexual script theory is a theory introduced by sociologists John H. Gagnon and William Simon in their 1973 book Sexual Conduct. Its basic principle states that all social behaviour, including sexual behaviour, is socially scripted. The idea is that sexual scripts are guidelines for appropriate sexual behaviour and sexual encounters.

 

[Checkmite]

The British Journal of Criminology
Sexual violence as a sexual script in mainstream online pornography (4th April 2021)

Abstract
This article examines the ways in which mainstream pornography positions sexual violence as a normative sexual script by analysing the video titles found on the landing pages of the three most popular pornography websites in the United Kingdom. The study draws on the largest research sample of online pornographic content to date and is unique in its focus on the content immediately advertised to a new user. We found that one in eight titles shown to first-time users on the first page of mainstream porn sites describe sexual activity that constitutes sexual violence. Our findings raise serious questions about the extent of criminal material easily and freely available on mainstream pornography websites and the efficacy of current regulatory mechanisms.

I'm not so sure about the final quoted line there; we are talking about "mainstream" videos after all. I have previously alluded that it's unquestionably the norm on sites like Pornhub that videos very commonly use language which describes or implies violence or abuse of some kind, in a consistent and bombastic way that is obviously meant to draw attention to itself. But most of the time, these kinds of video titles appear on videos that don't actually contain any real or simulated violence, or sometimes even anything approaching "aggression".

It's almost as if somewhere along the line in western culture sex, conceptually, became linked with violence irrespective of context. It would seem that an otherwise unremarkable "vanilla" sex scene attracts more interest when it is merely framed by its title as the female actor getting "destroyed", "ruined", or similar, and this effect is reliable enough that businesses whose profits depend on getting as many views as possible take advantage of it. If you ask me, that's a far better argument for the existence of a "rape culture" than the simple fact that illegal content sometimes makes its way to commercial websites.

 

[Poem]

I'm not so sure about the final quoted line there; we are talking about "mainstream" videos after all. I have previously alluded that it's unquestionably the norm on sites like Pornhub that videos very commonly use language which describes or implies violence or abuse of some kind, in a consistent and bombastic way that is obviously meant to draw attention to itself. But most of the time, these kinds of video titles appear on videos that don't actually contain any real or simulated violence, or sometimes even anything approaching "aggression".

It's almost as if somewhere along the line in western culture sex, conceptually, became linked with violence irrespective of context. It would seem that an otherwise unremarkable "vanilla" sex scene attracts more interest when it is merely framed by its title as the female actor getting "destroyed", "ruined", or similar, and this effect is reliable enough that businesses whose profits depend on getting as many views as possible take advantage of it. If you ask me, that's a far better argument for the existence of a "rape culture" than the simple fact that illegal content sometimes makes its way to commercial websites.

That is interesting - yet you have also said what appears to be the opposite:

#128
"These anecdotes gybe in a way with my own experience - I lost my appetite for porn a few years ago for a couple of reasons but this by far was the largest one - it just started happening, a lot, that in the middle of a video the male actor would suddenly firmly grab his female partner by the throat. Once in a while it would even be obvious that he was squeezing hard enough for her face to turn red or for her to start making gagging noises. It was extremely off putting to me. It wasn't EVERY video, but it was an uncomfortable lot of them, and it was also completely unavoidable because these instances would appear out of nowhere in thoroughly mainstream videos; videos without particularly edgy or quasi-violent titles, or anything else to suggest that I should be expecting something that I'd normally think of as niche S&M content to pop up in the middle of them."

Did you miss #203?

 

[Poem]

Ooo! Ooo! I'm not in position! We'll, since this is your thread, you're in position to

BLOCK ME!

See that box down there? Hit that as soon as you read this -- no, before you even read it! -- and you'll condemn me to outer otherness. Do it in sorrow, not anger. It'll feel really good.

Then you can proceed on to tell everybody all the stuff you'd like to do to Pornhub.

Maybe I was harsh sackett - I didn't mean to be rude.

 

[sackett]

Thank you very much

Maybe I was harsh sackett - I didn't mean to be rude.

You were neither harsh nor rude. I was the rude one, although I was only trying to be comical.

Let me plead age. I was here for the 60s and 70s "second wave" of feminism, when the term rape culture came in, uttered by the Grandes Dames of Ladies Lib. They made some good points at first, and I can testify that they changed American attitudes about rape; quite an achievement.

But reviving and repeating "rape culture" so many times, up to the present day, seems an unsophisticated approach. Terms need definite meanings. We need data. We need to know what we want to achieve.

The porn industry is a sleazy business, but a business is all it is. I'd draw a rough analogy with mining and petroleum: those guys need supervision or they get up to very dangerous mischief. There are laws to govern that.

There are laws to prevent the worst abuses of the pornographers. There are also laws to restrain the anti-pornographers.

I wish there was a God to help us when the laws go down.

Thank you again. Your post does you credit.

 

[dirtywick]

I'm not so sure about the final quoted line there; we are talking about "mainstream" videos after all. I have previously alluded that it's unquestionably the norm on sites like Pornhub that videos very commonly use language which describes or implies violence or abuse of some kind, in a consistent and bombastic way that is obviously meant to draw attention to itself. But most of the time, these kinds of video titles appear on videos that don't actually contain any real or simulated violence, or sometimes even anything approaching "aggression".

It's almost as if somewhere along the line in western culture sex, conceptually, became linked with violence irrespective of context. It would seem that an otherwise unremarkable "vanilla" sex scene attracts more interest when it is merely framed by its title as the female actor getting "destroyed", "ruined", or similar, and this effect is reliable enough that businesses whose profits depend on getting as many views as possible take advantage of it. If you ask me, that's a far better argument for the existence of a "rape culture" than the simple fact that illegal content sometimes makes its way to commercial websites.

well they put all the terms in nice to read tables and i agree. the study states nearly half of the 15k hits were incest, which i had joked earlier in the thread about and feel a little vindicated now actually, and of the remaining around 5k were flagged for terminology in the title like rough, pound, spank, drill, etc. i think the more clearly non-consensual or violent terms aren't occuring at nearly the same frequency.

of course, you can make of that what you want as far as what a context a pounding is going to violent and what context it isn't

 

[Venom]

The nearest thing to a "rape culture" that I can think of would be the 19th. century Sioux. If an unmarried girl wandered alone only a short distance outside of camp, she was deemed "not where she was supposed to be" by any gang of boys and young men* who found her. They were then free to gang rape her, and would, and did.

Was this true of all Dakhota/Lakhota/Nakhota tribes or bands? I don't know. Is it their practice still? Again, I don't know -- but the life situation for young women on Plains reservations isn't a healthy or well-protected one.

Is it okay if I suggest that here is a topic more worthy of the OP's concern?


*Those uncontrollable "wild young men" so often blamed by Indigenous leaders for raids and atrocities during the Indian Wars.

I can speak from experience when I look at my tradition culture in Southeast Asia until fairly recently there was a sort of code of silence when a young woman is forcefully impregnated by a man and forced to marry him. I speculate it's something common to many traditional cultures. Maybe it's a way of claiming the woman to reduce competition.

 

[novaphile]

When we have 'societies' where the victim of a gang rape, in a public setting, is sentenced to death for being raped, it seems particularly weird to focus on pornography in the western world as 'rape culture'.

 

[Checkmite]

That is interesting - yet you have also said what appears to be the opposite:

It's not the opposite, it's two different things being discussed. Violent terms in video titles ARE common; on the other hand, apparent choking content is becoming more common, and videos containing it don't always have violent titles.

 

[Poem]

According to feminist journalist Julie Bindal:
"One of the most popular search terms of the moment on Pornhub is Hentai, a type of Japanese animation of child sexual abuse. The levels of sexual violence depicted in this genre are horrific. Were the things in these cartoons to happen in real life to children, they would be seriously hurt if not killed. Hentai draws in children to the site. It also attracts men that get sexual kicks from sexually abusing kids."

Fact check:
Psychology Today confirms the popularity of hentai porn and what it is.
Man of many confirms that it is the most searched term.

 

[Poem]

It's not the opposite, it's two different things being discussed. Violent terms in video titles ARE common; on the other hand, apparent choking content is becoming more common, and videos containing it don't always have violent titles.

Either way, sexual violence is part of mainstream porn.

 

[Poem]

When we have 'societies' where the victim of a gang rape, in a public setting, is sentenced to death for being raped, it seems particularly weird to focus on pornography in the western world as 'rape culture'.

Sure, that is a clear cut example. Since I live in a society where that does not happen then it's not surprising that I have focused on something a little more hidden. it still needs calling out. It's about six months since the South Carolina Attorney General wrote to Pornhub and I am not aware of anything being done. No MSM outlets are reporting on it (or hardly any).

1 in 3 women continue to be physically and or sexually assaulted. Rape convictions continue to be somewhere around 2% or less globally. Anyone who finds sexual assault a turn on might look at the 2% rate and deem they'll probably get away with it.

That (and everything else i've posted here) appears to meet the definition of rape culture to me.

 

[Poem]

You were neither harsh nor rude. I was the rude one, although I was only trying to be comical.

Let me plead age. I was here for the 60s and 70s "second wave" of feminism, when the term rape culture came in, uttered by the Grandes Dames of Ladies Lib. They made some good points at first, and I can testify that they changed American attitudes about rape; quite an achievement.

But reviving and repeating "rape culture" so many times, up to the present day, seems an unsophisticated approach. Terms need definite meanings. We need data. We need to know what we want to achieve.

The porn industry is a sleazy business, but a business is all it is. I'd draw a rough analogy with mining and petroleum: those guys need supervision or they get up to very dangerous mischief. There are laws to govern that.

There are laws to prevent the worst abuses of the pornographers. There are also laws to restrain the anti-pornographers.

I wish there was a God to help us when the laws go down.

Thank you again. Your post does you credit.

 

[Poem]

There is a well known case of rape ending up on Pornhub:

Rose Kalemba, who, as a 14-year-old was violently raped by two men. Another man filmed the attack, which was then uploaded to Pornhub. The videos were entitled Passed out Teen and Teen Getting Destroyed.

 

[Ziggurat]

Rape convictions continue to be somewhere around 2% or less globally.

I call bull **** on this statistic. I don't think it's remotely possible to get an accurate measurement of something like this globally. First, how the hell are you going to get accurate data in places like Afghanistan, or even China? I don't think you can. Hell, getting accurate data about this even in the USA or other liberal western democracies is hard.

Second, given the vast disparities in cultures and their attitudes towards rape, consent, and women's rights, we shouldn't expect places where we can get data to be close to places where we cannot. So we can't extrapolate from what we can measure to what we cannot measure. I don't think anyone has any accurate measurement of a global average.

And lastly, why is a global average even relevant?

Anyone who finds sexual assault a turn on might look at the 2% rate and deem they'll probably get away with it.

Why would anyone look at the global average, and not the rate for their individual country?

That (and everything else i've posted here) appears to meet the definition of rape culture to me.

What exactly is "that"? The low rate of rape convictions? Perhaps, but 1) the number is an ass pull, and 2) it's not applicable everywhere. Or is "that" the people who commit the crime because they think they'll get away with it? Well, maybe, but again, that's not applicable everywhere, and seems to be a pretty individual decision based upon what you said was their predisposition. I'm not sure if that qualifies as "culture".

I think there is a rape culture in some parts of the world. I don't really see much evidence for it in the west beyond some subcultures.

 

[theprestige]

According to feminist journalist Julie Bindal:
"One of the most popular search terms of the moment on Pornhub is Hentai, a type of Japanese animation of child sexual abuse. The levels of sexual violence depicted in this genre are horrific. Were the things in these cartoons to happen in real life to children, they would be seriously hurt if not killed. Hentai draws in children to the site. It also attracts men that get sexual kicks from sexually abusing kids."

Fact check:
Psychology Today confirms the popularity of hentai porn and what it is.
Man of many confirms that it is the most searched term.

Julie Bindal and Psychology Today are idiots. Probably willful idiots. "Hentai" is the broadest category of illustrated or animated pornography in Japan. It encompasses an extremely wide range of genres, sub-genres, paraphilias, and fetishes. Which probably explains why it's such a popular search term: There's something in it for everyone.

You're being lied to by your authorities. Appealing to them is poisoning your own well.

 

[Ziggurat]

You're being lied to by your authorities. Appealing to them is poisoning your own well.

I'll also note that there's never any discussion about the portrayal of rape in "romance" novels. Women's sexuality can never be problematic, even when it involves rape fantasies.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I just read through seven pages and I have a lot to say.

My first observation is that the overwhelming majority of people participating in this thread are males (I don't know what sex Poem is though), and that of those males most have taken a very male-centric view.

The predominant argument against Poem's position seems to be that they want easy access to porn, and don't want anything put in place that might make it harder for them to get access to porn. My perspective is that for most of the posters, this is an extremely male view, and it's based on the underlying assumption that males have a right to expect sexual satisfaction, and that it is somehow wrong for any hurdles to be put in place for males gaining sexual satisfaction.

Poem presented a lot of information showing that a material amount of user-loaded content on porn hosting sites is either non-consensual or under age... and that got waved away as if that's not a big deal. Some posters have gone so far as to assure us all that it's very, very difficult to find rape and child porn unless one knows exactly how to search for it the right way. I'll let that marinate for a moment. All in all, it comes across as if most (not all) of the male posters in this thread place their desire to access porn well above the safety of children and females.