Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

[Jack by the hedge]

I'm just spitballing here, but I can't come up with a better explanation of why Vixen keeps introducing these irrelevant and inaccurate slurs against an entire nation.

It gets a reaction.

We can speculate on why this or that particular weird provocation got selected, but keeping the pot boiling was the purpose.

 

[Darat]

Anachronistic ********, and absolutely bugger all to do with the subject of this thread.

TLDR: some crap Vixen said, because she thought it sounded clever, and hoped it would distract everyone from her utter failure to back up any of her ludicrous claims.



ETA: Hmm... the TLDR was longer than the original. That's not how that's supposed to work, is it?

Most of this thread exists in topsy-turvy land so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[catsmate]

What is the inherent concept of fealty?

A phrase that occurs only in this thread, out of half-a-trillion webpages indexed by Google.

 

[catsmate]

Yeah, I hear a lot of those medieval barns burned down because of electric horses.

More likely the Scots.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

More likely the Scots.

Were they electric? Bearing in mind that they might have been converted in illegal backstreet garages and kept their batteries in their sporrans?

And that is one place you really don't want a fire!

 

[JayUtah]

A phrase that occurs only in this thread, out of half-a-trillion webpages indexed by Google.

"I, Andrew Hopkinson, head of Bedforshire Fire and Rescue Department, do become your liege man of life and limb and of earthly worship, and faith and truth I will bear unto thee, to live and die against all manner of folks who speak ill of the electric carriage."

 

[Mojo]

EDMUND: I wish to quickly send off some party invitations, and, to make them look particularly tough, I wish to write them in blood. Your blood, to be precise.

BALDRICK: So, how much blood will you actually be requiring, my lord?

EDMUND: Oh, nothing much, just a small puddle.

BALDRICK: Will you want me to cut anything off? an arm or a leg, for instance?

EDMUND: Oh, good lord, no! A little prick should do.

BALDRICK: Very well, my lord; I am your bondsman and must obey.

 

[welshdean]

Where's Lothian when you need him?

 

[Vixen]

Your fellow Britons disagree, so apparently what you're claiming to be invariably true isn't all the "common knowledge" you protest it to be.

Also, how does one "sign" acts of Parliament? Surely if such signatures were required, as you say, from so many people, you wouldn't have any trouble providing an example.

You really don't grasp that everyone can tell you're just spinning a bad spy novel in your head.

Figure of speech. It is used colloquially to sum up the signing of a document that you understand that you are covered by the terms of the Act linked to your work. It underlines that even if you are a 'whistleblower' (an act that is protected under Employment Law if the whistle blowing is in the public interest or to do with serious health and safety matters, for example) you can still be breaking the law under the aforesaid act.

In the case of the Luton fire, whilst a local journalist might well have got a quote from a firefighter as to his opinion it was a lithium fire and the local newspaper published it, you'll note none of the mainstream papers will touch it as they have a team of lawyers advising when some types of 'news' are embargoed. For example, when a crime has just been discovered and the police get involved. Then a blackout of news starts in the UK (subjudice) until such time of the trial. We'll get public info such as arrests and court appearances and dates, but that's it.


I know in the USA and on the continent there is no Contempt of Court or requirement of the cloak of secrecy, although most police forces like to investigate their stuff in private.

 

[Vixen]

You rarely claim to be an expert in anything. When you do, and base an argument upon such a claims, we invariably find it to be a lie.

Most times, you merely act as if you are an expert, and then expect everyone else to go along with it, as the remainder of your post here makes plain. The claim to expertise is implied in your penchant for pretending to be the teacher and Vixensplaining stuff that we're just supposed to take your word for.



And there you go again, pretending to be an expert in firefighting. Armchair detectives are worse than useless.

That's okay. I understand that clever people are often come across as unbearable. I understand your annoyance.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Figure of speech.

Sure, "signing the official secrets act" is indeed a figure of speech.

Is there any chance of your acknowledging that people who work for the NHS are not required to (figuratively or literally) do this as you claimed?

 

[Vixen]

You're standing by your false claim that everyone who joins e.g. the NHS has to sign the Official Secrets Act?

Don't put words in my mouth. Yes, I do stand by the claim you are not authorized to give statements to the press as their employee.

 

[zooterkin]

You're standing by your false claim that everyone who joins e.g. the NHS has to sign the Official Secrets Act?

Don't put words in my mouth. Yes, I do stand by the claim you are not authorized to give statements to the press as their employee.

There you go again. You really ought to read what you post.

Again common knowledge. I am pretty sure you know perfectly well the principles of fealty and the Official Secrets Act, even if not spelt out in your employment contract. They apply broadly to all employees. For the benefit of those outside of the UK, when you join the Civil Service or public service such as NHS, police, firefighter, etc., you invariably sign the Official Secrets Act to remind you of your duty of confidentiality linked to your job.

But Mojo knows this.

You claimed that anyone joining the NHS would be required to sign the Official Secrets Act.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... whilst a local journalist might well have got a quote from a firefighter as to his opinion it was a lithium fire and the local newspaper published it, you'll note none of the mainstream papers will touch it as they have a team of lawyers advising when some types of 'news' are embargoed.

Or what you half-remember as crusading journalism was some random's wot-I-reckon comment on twitter, so the "local paper" only exists as part of the story in your head and the embargo is entirely your own fantasy.

That is also possible.

 

[Vixen]

So, no mention of "signing" the Official Secrets Act then. Or of the Act at all.

All you say there is covered by the sorts of things I already noted about T&Cs and specific policies or codes of conduct.

Odd how in all the NHS IG training I had to do and all the trust policies concerning such areas whose drafts I had to review there was never, ever, evah a mention of the Official Secrets Act.

There were a bunch of acts of Parliament we needed to know about but the Official Secrets Act was never discussed at all.

Since I have signed the Official Secrets Act in a civil service job and in a job overseen by the Insolvency Service, I assumed it was the case for everyone in such jobs. Just because you have never signed it and nor does your employment contract mention confidentiality, doesn't mean it is not a reason for disciplinary action. Say you are a cop at a demo or a firefighter at a massive blaze affecting the public at large, your opinion on the scene given to a nearby reporter might well land you in hot water.

The statement given by Mr. Hodgkinson was very clearly a prepared and carefully worded one. Each word chosen for a reason: he knew this is the statement that would be published in the national press and is the authorized one.

 

[Vixen]

Did you even read what I wrote?

What I wrote was that nobody "signs the Official Secrets Act". Rather, those people in positions which are of sensitive national interests must sign a statement which a) confirms that the nature of their work is subject to the Official Secrets Act, and b) states that the person is liable to prosecution under the Act if they divulge aspects of their work to unauthorised third parties.

If your work, Vixen, had ever been of a nature that was subject to the Official Secrets Act (which it never was, was it?), you'd have obviously known that the construction "signing the Official Secrets Act" is a load of nonsense, and you wouldn't have used that phrase. You were lying when you claimed that the nature of your work had been subject to the Official Secrets Act. Just like you've lied about so, so much on this forum.

What's the female equivalent of Walter Mitty?


(Oh and to wheel back on-topic: I can be entirely certain that not one person working at Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service has ever - ever - been required to sign papers acknowledging that the nature of their work is subject to the Official Secrets Act. I suppose that might change if, say, King Charles' aircraft crashed and Beds Fire & Rescue staff attended the scene. But as of today, and especially as of a car fire in a carpark at Luton Airport..... most definitely not.)


ETA: much of my father's work was covered by the Official Secrets Act, but we never even talked about it until years after his retirement, when he pointed it out. And he, of course, never talked about "signing the Official Secrets Act", because he knew better - as someone who'd actually signed to acknowledge his responsibilities under the Act. Unlike Vixen Mitty.

I can confirm that I have indeed signed it. So cease the ad hominems.

 

[Vixen]

And the Met document she cited to support her claim that "employees are not allowed to speak to the press" actually said:




When this was pointed out she retreated to saying that it is "common knowledge", which doesn't really work when you have just cited a document that says the opposite of what you're claiming.

Note the word 'factual'.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Don't put words in my mouth.

You wrote those words here.

If you don't want to be pulled up for writing falsehoods I recommend you avoid doing so. It's a thing clever people do.

 

[junkshop]

Vixen, allow me to refresh your memory:

Again common knowledge. I am pretty sure you know perfectly well the principles of fealty and the Official Secrets Act, even if not spelt out in your employment contract. They apply broadly to all employees. For the benefit of those outside of the UK, when you join the Civil Service or public service such as NHS, police, firefighter, etc., you invariably sign the Official Secrets Act to remind you of your duty of confidentiality linked to your job.

But Mojo knows this.

You're standing by your false claim that everyone who joins e.g. the NHS has to sign the Official Secrets Act?

Don't put words in my mouth. Yes, I do stand by the claim you are not authorized to give statements to the press as their employee.

ETA: Ninja'd by Zooterkin. That's what you get for making a cup of tea halfway through posting.

 

[Vixen]

As I said, conspiracy theorists, armchair detectives, and other blowhards really do seem to think that no one can tell they're faking it.

I can speak at length of the perils and pitfalls of U.S. government form SF 86, but it would not serve to inform Vixen or budge her from her fantasy perch. And it's also rather inapplicable to the United Kingdom. But I will happily roll my eyes at the thought of everyone having to "sign" an act of Parliament. I would say you can't make that stuff up, but clearly someone has.



Poor Walter never tried to drag anyone from the real world into his fantasy, at least in Thurber's original. What is it with people who insist that we validate their self-indulgent fantasies, and that we indulge their efforts to wipe away genuine knowledge as mere "snobbery?"



Most of my work is covered by one kind of obligation of nondisclosure or another, including obligations of privacy to individuals suspected of wrongdoing. It's absolutely ludicrous to suppose that the true nature of the vehicle in question in this thread is being kept secret, and a cover story deployed in its place, by vast swathes of public servants allegedly sworn to secrecy or operating under the U.K. Official Secrets Act.

I wish I had never mentioned as I thought it was common knowledge. Having had to study all aspects of business and industry inside out, outside in, in every possible way, I stupidly failed to realise that this stuff is outside of the radar of most people and they have no need to know it.