Split Thread Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla

[Puppycow]

The lawyers argue that they had to work without pay for five years, and if they lost, they would have got nothing. Apparently, law is a high-risk, high-profit business.

Yes, but they took on that risk voluntarily.

I'd like to know how many actual hours they worked on that case during the 5 years. I doubt that it was the only thing they were doing the whole time. I bet they also had other clients concurrently.

I repeat: I don't object to them getting paid for their work. But not $5 billion.

The article I linked to originally is sadly lacking in details such as the names of the law firms involved. I did a bit more Googling:

https://www.thewellnews.com/law/attorneys-in-tesla-lawsuit-seek-6b-in-legal-fees/

They want most of their money paid in Tesla stock, which would work out to $288,888 per hour for the three law firms.

So there were three law firms involved. Essentially they are asking for $288,888 PER HOUR. That is not reasonable. One 1/100th of that rate would be nearly $3,000 per hour. The most expensive attorneys who charge an hourly rate charge about $2,500 per hour. Most charge less, of course. Maybe you could even argue for double or even triple that in the case of working on a contingency basis. But that's about as far as I would allow.

The three law firms are Bernstein Litowitz Berger & Grossmann and Friedman Oster & Tejtel, both based in New York, and Andrews & Springer of Wilmington, Delaware.

I did the arithmetic and the rate per hour suggests that they worked about 20,000 hours on the case. The first law firm on that list seems to have several dozens of attorneys. And that's just one of three firms involved. If a full-time job is 2,000 hours per year, that's about 10 lawyer-years over a five year case, or just two lawyers out of dozens or hundreds fully engaged on it on average during the period. For law firms of this size, that could only be a fraction of what they handled during the last five years.

 

[Roboramma]

I haven't read the articles, but if anyone who has could give a basic summation of the argument: is the $5 billion the agreed upon percentage of the ruling that they had with their clients going in, or is this some post hoc reassessment of what they think they should be paid?

 

[Puppycow]

Their client, singular. I don't know what they agreed to with the client.

I seem to recall reading that the client owned a grand total of 9 shares in the company in 2018 when the lawsuit was filed. At the time, the shares were less than about $25 per share, which would be less than a $250 investment. One share is worth about $188 today.

The argument is that they saved the company (shareholders) money by voiding this compensation package. Exactly how much they saved is unclear, since the company will submit another package. The difference will be how much the company saves.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/1/why-did-a-court-cancel-elon-musks-tesla-salary-package

Richard Tornetta, an individual Tesla shareholder, filed the lawsuit against Musk and senior Tesla executives in 2018, arguing that the package was excessive and the board had not acted independently.

Tornetta, a drummer who was once in the heavy metal band Dawn of Correction, owned just nine of Tesla’s 3.1 billion shares in 2018 when he filed the suit. His shares are worth about $1,700 today. According to the court, Tornetta’s lawyers will be compensated by Tesla.

That gives me an interesting idea for an investment strategy: Invest small amounts in lots of companies with highly paid CEOs and then hire lawyers to sue them on contingency. The lawyers get paid not by the client but by the company being sued, and in the worst case, you still have the shares.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Yikes! Be careful out there...



Link


To which some wag responded...




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Now, this response is cult-thinking....



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Yeah, it is the consumer's fault for not expecting catastrophic failure with the first generation model.

Oh and that its the customer's responsibility to ensure that all the bugs are ironed out by driving in an evironment it is explicitly not designed to be used in.

 

[dirtywick]

so musk is suing openai for making a profit but it sound a lot more like he didn’t mind profit when he suggested a for profit model when he wanted them to merge with telsa. he wants them to be forced to make no money and seems to want them to be transparent as a public service, but also is developing his own worse xai.

he guy never not disappoints.

 

[Checkmite]

Yes it appears to be another jealousy fit on Musk's part. Musk told them the company was doomed unless they let Tesla buy them out; they refused, and not only did they not die, but Musk's own AI startup has never been able to catch up. Nor will he ever be able to attract the world's top AI talent as long as OpenAI continues to thrive. So he effectively wants to use the courts to force the dissolution of OpenAI by removing the ability to fund itself.

 

[Darat]

And his case in this one is nearly as bad as the one against media matters.

 

[dirtywick]

https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/09/bill...ldnt-break-strengthened-windows-20433423/amp/

billionaire elaine chao, sil to famous scumbag mitch mcconnell, drowns in tesla model x because the windows were too strong to break

 

[The Great Zaganza]

https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/09/bill...ldnt-break-strengthened-windows-20433423/amp/

billionaire elaine chao, sil to famous scumbag mitch mcconnell, drowns in tesla model x because the windows were too strong to break

obviously an assassination carried out by hacked self-driving function.

Why is this thread not in the CT section ?

 

[Darat]

Looks like he may owe the government some money: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/10/us/elon-musk-charity.html

After making billions in tax-deductible donations to his philanthropy, the owner of Tesla and SpaceX gave away far less than required in some years — and what he did give often supported his own interests.​

 

[8enotto]

He is angry another billion dollar salary slipped away from him as CEO of yet another enterprise.

Nothing more. They beat him at his own game.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Looks like he may owe the government some money: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/10/us/elon-musk-charity.html

After making billions in tax-deductible donations to his philanthropy, the owner of Tesla and SpaceX gave away far less than required in some years — and what he did give often supported his own interests.​

Trump must be seething with envy.

 

[Puppycow]

And his case in this one is nearly as bad as the one against media matters.

He's so rich that he can afford to file meritless nuisance lawsuits against people he doesn't like just to harass them. In this case, I think OpenAI and Microsoft are able to defend themselves.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/09/bill...ldnt-break-strengthened-windows-20433423/amp/

billionaire elaine chao, sil to famous scumbag mitch mcconnell, drowns in tesla model x because the windows were too strong to break

And also because there was no way to mechanically open the doors from the inside without ripping off panels. There, needless to say, was no way to mechanically open the doors from the outside.

The reason why the normal way wouldn't work was because the electrics were fried as soon as the car hit the water.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

And also because there was no way to mechanically open the doors from the inside without ripping off panels.

Not true. There is a standard, mechanical latch in an intuitively obvious place.

So obvious, in fact, that passengers have to be advised not to use as a general rule - there’s a button for that which slightly lowers the frameless windows to avoid stressing them.

Where do you get this stuff from?

 

[ZirconBlue]

Not true. There is a standard, mechanical latch in an intuitively obvious place.

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53588097093_0fd2ba45f2_z.jpg[/qimg]

So obvious, in fact, that passengers have to be advised not to use as a general rule - there’s a button for that which slightly lowers the frameless windows to avoid stressing them.

Where do you get this stuff from?

Probably from stories like this.

 

[Trebuchet]

https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/09/bill...ldnt-break-strengthened-windows-20433423/amp/

billionaire elaine chao, sil to famous scumbag mitch mcconnell, drowns in tesla model x because the windows were too strong to break

Not Elaine, her sister.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Probably from stories like this.

Can you spot the difference between…

a) “And also because there was no way to mechanically open the doors from the inside without ripping off panels.”

…and…

b) A gentleman feeling trapped because he didn’t understand a basic mechanical backup to the electric door opening button.

Tesla’s come with both a paper owner’s handbook, and one readily available on the main screen. In addition, there are a series of videos you can watch in the car and on the Tesla app to guide a new owner through basic features of the vehicle. Here’s a screenshot of the video describing the mechanical backup for opening the door:

 

[theprestige]

Not only that, but every time I've bought a car, the salesman has insisted on showing me every function and feature of the car, before completing the sale. Maybe Tesla dealerships skip that step?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Not only that, but every time I've bought a car, the salesman has insisted on showing me every function and feature of the car, before completing the sale. Maybe Tesla dealerships skip that step?

I honestly don’t remember - it’s been over 2 years. But typically, they tell you NOT to use the mechanical lever, which falls right to hand, but to use the button for normal operations.