Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

[Jack by the hedge]

Don't try to pretend the two types of fire are identical.

This is an example of a straw man fallacy, attacking a claim different from the one which was made.

Fancy claiming they progress and give off the same fumes as any other fire!

This is a further example of the same straw man argument.

I am amazed people aren't aware of any of this.

This could be construed as another example of a straw man fallacy, but serves better as an example of the motte and bailey fallacy; defending a different and lesser claim than the false one made.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I never claimed to be an expert in firefighting.

Let's come back to that.

The false equivalence you cite between a diesel fire and a lithium battery one is predicated on the fact that firefighters can move in and put out an ordinary car fire within ten minutes.

Please provide a source for that claim. What would cause firefighters to be able to respond to one type of vehicle fire faster than another?

Don't try to pretend the two types of fire are identical.

Please point out where I said that EV fires are identical to ICE fires. I say that rhetorically because I know you can't. I also know you will never admit that. I've already stated that EV fires can burn longer than ICE fires.

The NHTSA has published a study stating that EV fires don't burn with any greater intensity than ICE fires. EV fires are no more "nightmarish" than ICE fires. Firefighters simply have to use some different techniques with them.

The Luton Airport car park fire was in its ignition stage, so hardly something that could not be tackled by a regular team of firefighters arriving promptly with the usual equipment.

This is where I'd like to go back to your first sentence. The above quotation is a perfect example of you pretending to be an expert on firefighting. You still pretend that the fire, as we saw it in the images, was exactly as it was when the fire service arrived, and that they should have been able to just drive their big pumper trucks up the ramps and douse it in a few minutes. You've already been shown why that's wrong.

...two fire extinguishers had unsuccessfully failed to extinguish it, and we can see with our own two eyes whence the characteristic flames are shooting out, giving off a white or grey cloud of smoke. The location is exactly where a lithium battery would be...

The above is all ********. (And the double negative perfectly sums up the theatrical "sophistication" of your arguments.) It's just you repeating a bunch of already debunked claims, right down to your sad attempts to pass off people who have jobs in some way related to cars as experts on automobile fires because you're credulous enough to believe idiots on the internet trying to sound important.

The other key factor, I'm afraid, is politics...

Yeah, yeah... The Rand Corporation and the reverse vampires are working in conjunction with the saucer people again. The fact that no one with any authority will say what you already know to be true from the expertise you've gained reading comments by people who worked as parking garage attendants and car salesman only serves to prove that there's a grand conspiracy by sinister forces.

 

[LondonJohn]

As I said several posts before yours:

"Every employee in the UK (Great Britain and Northern Ireland and its extended territories) is subject to the Official Secrets Act. Civil Servants sign it to make it explicit of their duty of confidentiality. Even when I was under the Secretary of State dealing with the Insolvency Service I had to sign it.

There is also the inherent concept of fealty.

I am amazed people aren't aware of any of this.

Quote:
It is not necessary for a person to have signed the Official Secrets Act in
order to be bound by it. The 1989 Act states that a person can be
“notified” that he or she is bound by it; and Government employees
will usually be informed via their contract of employment if they must
observe the Act. Furthermore, members of the general public are also
bound by a part of the Act. Section 5 of the Official Secrets Act 1989
makes it an offence for a person to disclose information specifically
covered by the Act which has been disclosed to them unlawfully by a
Crown Servant.
https://researchbriefings.files.parl...2/CBP-7422.pdf"

But thanks for trying to take credit.

Did you even read what I wrote?

What I wrote was that nobody "signs the Official Secrets Act". Rather, those people in positions which are of sensitive national interests must sign a statement which a) confirms that the nature of their work is subject to the Official Secrets Act, and b) states that the person is liable to prosecution under the Act if they divulge aspects of their work to unauthorised third parties.

If your work, Vixen, had ever been of a nature that was subject to the Official Secrets Act (which it never was, was it?), you'd have obviously known that the construction "signing the Official Secrets Act" is a load of nonsense, and you wouldn't have used that phrase. You were lying when you claimed that the nature of your work had been subject to the Official Secrets Act. Just like you've lied about so, so much on this forum.

What's the female equivalent of Walter Mitty?


(Oh and to wheel back on-topic: I can be entirely certain that not one person working at Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service has ever - ever - been required to sign papers acknowledging that the nature of their work is subject to the Official Secrets Act. I suppose that might change if, say, King Charles' aircraft crashed and Beds Fire & Rescue staff attended the scene. But as of today, and especially as of a car fire in a carpark at Luton Airport..... most definitely not.)


ETA: much of my father's work was covered by the Official Secrets Act, but we never even talked about it until years after his retirement, when he pointed it out. And he, of course, never talked about "signing the Official Secrets Act", because he knew better - as someone who'd actually signed to acknowledge his responsibilities under the Act. Unlike Vixen Mitty.

 

[Mojo]

There is also the inherent concept of fealty.

 

[Mojo]

Doesn't answer the point. You were asked to provide the fire service press rules to prove they were what you claimed and provided the met instead.

Good memory my eye.

And the Met document she cited to support her claim that "employees are not allowed to speak to the press" actually said:

Officers and staff of all ranks and roles are encouraged to provide factual information to the media concerning operational incidents or investigations.

When this was pointed out she retreated to saying that it is "common knowledge", which doesn't really work when you have just cited a document that says the opposite of what you're claiming.

 

[Mojo]

Anyway, back to the curious incident of the vixen in the night-time.

Firefighters from nearby Harpenden (there were firefighters from several regions helping to control the blaze) were reported off the record to have said it looked like a lithium-ion fire.

Why didn't you post this when you first saw it rather than waiting until you had forgotten where it came from?

 

[JayUtah]

If your work, Vixen, had ever been of a nature that was subject to the Official Secrets Act (which it never was, was it?), you'd have obviously known that the construction "signing the Official Secrets Act" is a load of nonsense, and you wouldn't have used that phrase.

As I said, conspiracy theorists, armchair detectives, and other blowhards really do seem to think that no one can tell they're faking it.

I can speak at length of the perils and pitfalls of U.S. government form SF 86, but it would not serve to inform Vixen or budge her from her fantasy perch. And it's also rather inapplicable to the United Kingdom. But I will happily roll my eyes at the thought of everyone having to "sign" an act of Parliament. I would say you can't make that stuff up, but clearly someone has.

What's the female equivalent of Walter Mitty?

Poor Walter never tried to drag anyone from the real world into his fantasy, at least in Thurber's original. What is it with people who insist that we validate their self-indulgent fantasies, and that we indulge their efforts to wipe away genuine knowledge as mere "snobbery?"

ETA: much of my father's work was covered by the Official Secrets Act, but we never even talked about it until years after his retirement, when he pointed it out.

Most of my work is covered by one kind of obligation of nondisclosure or another, including obligations of privacy to individuals suspected of wrongdoing. It's absolutely ludicrous to suppose that the true nature of the vehicle in question in this thread is being kept secret, and a cover story deployed in its place, by vast swathes of public servants allegedly sworn to secrecy or operating under the U.K. Official Secrets Act.

 

[Andy_Ross]

What is the inherent concept of fealty?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

What is the inherent concept of fealty?

I can't tell you. The first rule of official secrets club is you mustn't talk about official secrets club.

 

[Mojo]

What is the inherent concept of fealty?

Feudalism.

 

[JayUtah]

Yeah, I hear a lot of those medieval barns burned down because of electric horses.

 

[Mojo]

At least we now know where Vixen got the "tugs forelock" stuff from.

 

[novaphile]

What is the inherent concept of fealty?

https://www.amazon.com.au/Oath-Fealty-Larry-Niven/dp/1416555161

 

[junkshop]

What is the inherent concept of fealty?

Anachronistic ********, and absolutely bugger all to do with the subject of this thread.

TLDR: some crap Vixen said, because she thought it sounded clever, and hoped it would distract everyone from her utter failure to back up any of her ludicrous claims.



ETA: Hmm... the TLDR was longer than the original. That's not how that's supposed to work, is it?

 

[Mojo]

Anachronistic ********, and absolutely bugger all to do with the subject of this thread.

TLDR: some crap Vixen said, because she thought it sounded clever, and hoped it would distract everyone from her utter failure to back up any of her ludicrous claims.

Such as this one:

Firefighters from nearby Harpenden (there were firefighters from several regions helping to control the blaze) were reported off the record to have said it looked like a lithium-ion fire.

Vixen, do you have a source for this?

 

[Foster Zygote]

What is the inherent concept of fealty?

"Once upon a time"
"Somebody say to me," this is a dog talkin' now
"What is your Conceptual Continuity?"
"Well, I told him right then," Fido said
It should be easy to see
The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Yeah, I hear a lot of those medieval barns burned down because of electric horses.

Sure it wasn't the electric sheep?

I still dream about them.

 

[junkshop]

What is the inherent concept of fealty?

Feudalism.

At least we now know where Vixen got the "tugs forelock" stuff from.

I am noticing a bit a sub-theme developing in this thread. Vixen really seems to have a problem with a very outdated idea of British society.

All this talk of fealty, and forelocks being tugged, and the British unquestioningly submitting to authority, it's a bit weird.

I'm not saying that this is the case, but it feels kind of like the reaction of someone who wanted to be part of the 'in' group, but was refused entry. The kind of thing that might have happened to a self-confessed "haughty schoolgirl".

I'm just spitballing here, but I can't come up with a better explanation of why Vixen keeps introducing these irrelevant and inaccurate slurs against an entire nation. It's weird.

 

[Steve]

I am noticing a bit a sub-theme developing in this thread. Vixen really seems to have a problem with a very outdated idea of British society.

All this talk of fealty, and forelocks being tugged, and the British unquestioningly submitting to authority, it's a bit weird.

I'm not saying that this is the case, but it feels kind of like the reaction of someone who wanted to be part of the 'in' group, but was refused entry. The kind of thing that might have happened to a self-confessed "haughty schoolgirl".

But I'm just spitballing here, but I can't come up with a better explanation of why Vixen keeps introducing these irrelevant and inaccurate slurs against an entire nation. It's weird.

I can't come up with an explanation for pretty much all of the crap Vixen posts. Seems like out of control verbal diarrhea in written form.

 

[welshdean]

What is the inherent concept of fealty?

It's how a blind person distinguishes which golf accessory he has.