Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

[Mojo]

Is this an appeal to the crowd?

No, it was pointing out that what has actually happened in this thread (and others) doesn't match what you were implying about it.

 

[Georg]

......together with the Fire Brigade withholding the information as to the model, make and year of the vehicle involved claiming only that it was not an EV but 'believed to be a diesel-fuelled vehicle', then it does seem to point to an unwillingness to let the public know what the public is normally entitled to know.

Why are you repeating this lie again and again??

https://www.bedsfire.gov.uk/news/major-incident-declared-luton-airport

The fire service can confirm the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel car.

https://www.bedsfire.gov.uk/news/london-luton-airport-car-park-fire

The investigation into the cause of the fire continues, but it has been determined that the vehicle that first caught fire was a diesel car.

 

[Mojo]

Firefighters from nearby Harpenden (there were firefighters from several regions helping to control the blaze) were reported off the record to have said it looked like a lithium-ion fire.

What is the source for the comment?

IIRC it was an online local newspaper and it was an opinion from an unnamed firefighter from Harpenden Brigade.

Incidentally, why didn't you post it here when you first saw it?

Frankly, Vixen, I don't believe this. If you had actually seen such a report in any kind of reliable source you would have immediately plastered it all over this thread, rather than waiting until you had conveniently forgotten where you got it, because it's exactly what you have been looking for for the last five months.

 

[SteveAitch]

Why are you repeating this lie again and again??

Have you considered the possibility, this is the CT forum after all, that Vixen is a trainee shill for Big Oil and she is working on the Kill-EVs project?

 

[catsmate]

Is this an appeal to the crowd?

No. You really have no understanding of logic and logical fallacies,
argumentum ad populum or otherwise, do you?

 

[catsmate]

Common knowledge.

More wallpaper words. Pathetic.

 

[catsmate]

So it seems you are the one who is ignorant about lithium battery fires.

Fancy claiming they progress and give off the same fumes as any other fire! OMG I am laughing with tears in my eyes ATM. Literally gasping for breath.

I didn't. You're lying as usual.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Many happy returns. As you know, when there is an incident such as this, the police collaborate with the fire service. I do know that the London Fire Brigade came along to help fight the fire. I don't know whether this is the police force tackling it (but given the sheer scale of damage and the possibility of a crime [many such fires are arson]) then I wouldn't be surprised. The point is virtually all public facing jobs such as police and firefighters have a specific chain of command as to who can give statements to the press.

But then you knew that.

Doesn't answer the point. You were asked to provide the fire service press rules to prove they were what you claimed and provided the met instead.

Good memory my eye.

 

[Georg]

Have you considered the possibility, this is the CT forum after all, that Vixen is a trainee shill for Big Oil and she is working on the Kill-EVs project?

That's too simple.
Even as only a trainee shill you are expected to do much better.
I actually think it's the other way round.
She's working for Big EV and her job is to make EV opponents look like idiots by impersonating one.

See you in AAH .

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Have you considered the possibility, this is the CT forum after all, that Vixen is a trainee shill for Big Oil and she is working on the Kill-EVs project?

No. Because Big Oil could do better.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Common knowledge.

So you can't show us where this knowledge comes from?

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Again common knowledge. I am pretty sure you know perfectly well the principles of fealty and the Official Secrets Act, even if not spelt out in your employment contract. They apply broadly to all employees. For the benefit of those outside of the UK, when you join the Civil Service or public service such as NHS, police, firefighter, etc., you invariably sign the Official Secrets Act to remind you of your duty of confidentiality linked to your job.

But Mojo knows this.

This is uttter and complete bollocks.

30-odd years in the NHS and I was never, ever, evah required to sign the Official Secrets Act.

In fact, IIRC, no-one "signs" the Act, but some folk (not the NHS) are covered by various provisions of the Act.

I was bound by my professional code of conduct, various rules and regulations about patient confidentiality and specific parts of my contract which forbade me talking to outside bodies about aspects of my employment without having it cleared by Corporate Services. But absolutely had not a single thing to dowith the Official Secrets Act.

Where the buggery bollocks do you get this nonsense?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Again common knowledge. I am pretty sure you know perfectly well the principles of fealty and the Official Secrets Act, even if not spelt out in your employment contract. They apply broadly to all employees. For the benefit of those outside of the UK, when you join the Civil Service or public service such as NHS, police, firefighter, etc., you invariably sign the Official Secrets Act to remind you of your duty of confidentiality linked to your job.

But Mojo knows this.

What is your evidence for this?
I never signed and I was in the navy.

My sister cousin is a nurse, I asked her if she signed, she says no .

You made it up.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I never claimed to be an expert in firefighting. The false equivalence you cite between a diesel fire and a lithium battery one is predicated on the fact that firefighters can move in and put out an ordinary car fire within ten minutes. Don't try to pretend the two types of fire are identical.

The Luton Airport car park fire was in its ignition stage, so hardly something that could not be tackled by a regular team of firefighters arriving promptly with the usual equipment.

Luckily, in this case, we have an authorized release of a CCTV clip of the presumed Vehicle Zero, which from its outline looks to be a Range Rover or Land Rover of some sort. From the nature of where the fire is located which appears to have ignited as the guy was driving in; as of that point, two fire extinguishers had unsuccessfully failed to extinguish it, and we can see with our own two eyes whence the characteristic flames are shooting out, giving off a white or grey cloud of smoke. The location is exactly where a lithium battery would be. When people with long experience in that industry state that in their opinion this appears to be a lithium-ion fire, together with the Fire Brigade withholding the information as to the model, make and year of the vehicle involved claiming only that it was not an EV but 'believed to be a diesel-fuelled vehicle', then it does seem to point to an unwillingness to let the public know what the public is normally entitled to know. This information appears in the press as a matter of course. Journalist Jasper Jolly, who wrote a four-part series for the GUARDIAN about EV vehicles, basically extolling their virtues, contacted the Fire Brigade to verify his information and he was told, and he quotes that the vehicle at Luton Airport car park fire was 'not a fully electric or plug-in hybrid'. As a respectable journalist, I believe Jolly has insisted and received specific details. As you can see it has not ruled out a mild hybrid. We also know - since you are keen on statistics as to which vehicles are most likely to catch fire - that such vehicles are the leading cause of 'accidental ignition'. It really has nothing at all to do with conspiracy theory, except that EVangelists want it to be because they think it is an attack on EV cars and the net zero aims.

The other key factor, I'm afraid, is politics. Someone high up has embargoed releasing the make and model of the vehicle involved, and surprise surprise, we discover that JLR owners, Tata, have been given a huge government grant (= grants do not have to be paid back) to build a massive lithium battery plant int he UK and with close links to the Prime Minister's wife. Call me cynical if you like but there has been an awful lot of pocket lining by UK politicians given half a chance (cf PPE procurement, planning permissions, expense claims, etcetera, etcetera).

The fire service said it was a diesel car.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Many happy returns. As you know, when there is an incident such as this, the police collaborate with the fire service. I do know that the London Fire Brigade came along to help fight the fire. I don't know whether this is the police force tackling it (but given the sheer scale of damage and the possibility of a crime [many such fires are arson]) then I wouldn't be surprised. The point is virtually all public facing jobs such as police and firefighters have a specific chain of command as to who can give statements to the press.

But then you knew that.

And yet you can't show us a document from the fire service in question.

 

[Andy_Ross]

So it seems you are the one who is ignorant about lithium battery fires.

Fancy claiming they progress and give off the same fumes as any other fire!

OMG I am laughing with tears in my eyes ATM. Literally gasping for breath.

Tell us why the fumes are worse than a hydrocarbon fire.


When I did the RN Firefighting school fumes and smoke were the biggest hazard for anyone tackling a fire. We never had lithium batteries to worry about, the cyanide from plastics was our biggest worry along with carbon monoxide and particulates.
you are making stuff up again.

 

[Vixen]

Every employee in the UK (Great Britain and Northern Ireland and its extended territories) is subject to the Official Secrets Act. Civil Servants sign it to make it explicit of their duty of confidentiality. Even when I was under the Secretary of State dealing with the Insolvency Service I had to sign it.

There is also the inherent concept of fealty.

I am amazed people aren't aware of any of this.

It is not necessary for a person to have signed the Official Secrets Act in
order to be bound by it. The 1989 Act states that a person can be
“notified” that he or she is bound by it; and Government employees
will usually be informed via their contract of employment if they must
observe the Act. Furthermore, members of the general public are also
bound by a part of the Act. Section 5 of the Official Secrets Act 1989
makes it an offence for a person to disclose information specifically
covered by the Act which has been disclosed to them unlawfully by a
Crown Servant.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7422/CBP-7422.pdf

 

[zooterkin]

Every employee in the UK (Great Britain and Northern Ireland and its extended territories) is subject to the Official Secrets Act. Civil Servants sign it to make it explicit of their duty of confidentiality. Even when I was under the Secretary of State dealing with the Insolvency Service I had to sign it.

And it has nothing to do with employees talking to the press.

There is also the inherent concept of fealty.

Now, are you going to back your statement up with something actually relevant?

 

[Carrot Flower King]

What is your evidence for this?
I never signed and I was in the navy.

My sister cousin is a nurse, I asked her if she signed, she says no .

You made it up.

I have a very, very long list of folk who worked in the NHS who didn't sign the Act: Carrot Flower Queen (payroll and IT, so access to mucho personal data and other sensitive things); my parents; my cousin; my sister; my Scouse Bro-in-Law; everyone I trained with or ever worked with in 30-odd years; my next-door neighbour; a couple of other neighbours; all the medical studdents and junior medics I knew at university; me mate's wife; the parents of various of my patients; my local cardiology team; our GPs and practice nurses; the nice bods in Benbecula who assessed me last May; the other payroll and pensions bods I've had to speak to; pharmacists various; porters; catering staff; domestics; even sodding managers...

Shall I start on police officers, social workers, prison staff, members of the services, civil servants and the rest I know or have had dealings with? We could be here a very long time...

 

[Vixen]

I have a very, very long list of folk who worked in the NHS who didn't sign the Act: Carrot Flower Queen (payroll and IT, so access to mucho personal data and other sensitive things); my parents; my cousin; my sister; my Scouse Bro-in-Law; everyone I trained with or ever worked with in 30-odd years; my next-door neighbour; a couple of other neighbours; all the medical studdents and junior medics I knew at university; me mate's wife; the parents of various of my patients; my local cardiology team; our GPs and practice nurses; the nice bods in Benbecula who assessed me last May; the other payroll and pensions bods I've had to speak to; pharmacists various; porters; catering staff; domestics; even sodding managers...

Shall I start on police officers, social workers, prison staff, members of the services, civil servants and the rest I know or have had dealings with? We could be here a very long time...

When did you last see some cop who was at a demonstration or a crime scene, or a firefighter at the scene of a major fire giving an interview to the press or a broadcaster? If they give their identity, they might well be subject to disciplinary measures and it won't wash if they take legal action because trust is implicit in an Employment contract.

Sure, there are people who are stupid enough to do things under their employer's name, like a guy on twitter who in his bio said he worked for Aldi and was posting offensive material.