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Cont: Roe v Wade overturned - this is some BS part II

I am sure that there is not a sufficient majority in the U.S. for amending the constitution to enshrine the right to abortion, but just for interest, what would be needed?

Amending the Constitution is such a difficult process, that a meaningful amendment is not doable.

An amendment may be proposed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of Congress, or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. The amendment must then be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification.
 
It was. But it isn't today. Catholicism was once the state religion of France and continues to be the primary religion in French society.
Today the government itself is officially secular.

Yeah, the French are VERY strict in keeping any hint of religion away from government and especially law enforcement and the judicial system.
 
France is officially Catholic? Are you sure about that?

It was. But it isn't today. Catholicism was once the state religion of France and continues to be the primary religion in French society.
Today the government itself is officially secular.

Yeah, its not officially Catholic in the sense of it being the state religion, nonetheless...

"Estimates of the proportion of Catholics in 2020 range between 47% and 88% of France's population, with the higher figure including lapsed Catholics and "Catholic atheists". The Catholic Church in France is organised into 98 dioceses, which in 2012 were served by 7,000 sub-75 priests.[7] 80 to 90 priests are ordained every year, although the church would need eight times as many to compensate the number of priest deaths. Approximately 45,000 Catholic church buildings and chapels are spread out among 36,500 cities, towns, and villages in France, but a majority are no longer regularly used for mass. Notable churches of France include Notre Dame de Paris, Chartres Cathedral, Reims Cathedral, and Basilique du Sacre-Coeur, Eglise de la Madeleine, and Amiens Cathedral. Its national shrine, Lourdes, is visited by 5 million pilgrims yearly.[8] The capital city, Paris, is a major pilgrimage site for Catholics as well."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_France

So Catholicism is still pretty much the single, dominant religion in France. All the more remarkable that the vote was so hugely one-sided (780-72), with members of the far-right Reconquête Party comprising most of the 72 opposed.


NOTE: "Reconquête" translates to "Reconquest"... Make France Great Again?, Take back our country? Sounds familiar doesn't it? :eye-poppi
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Yeah, the French are VERY strict in keeping any hint of religion away from government and especially law enforcement and the judicial system.

I think what's fascinating is how quickly Ireland has turned against the Church. In the Western World religiosity has been on a steady decline. But in comparison, in Ireland it has imploded.
 
Yeah, its not officially Catholic in the sense of it being the state religion, nonetheless...

"Estimates of the proportion of Catholics in 2020 range between 47% and 88% of France's population, with the higher figure including lapsed Catholics and "Catholic atheists". The Catholic Church in France is organised into 98 dioceses, which in 2012 were served by 7,000 sub-75 priests.[7] 80 to 90 priests are ordained every year, although the church would need eight times as many to compensate the number of priest deaths. Approximately 45,000 Catholic church buildings and chapels are spread out among 36,500 cities, towns, and villages in France, but a majority are no longer regularly used for mass. Notable churches of France include Notre Dame de Paris, Chartres Cathedral, Reims Cathedral, and Basilique du Sacre-Coeur, Eglise de la Madeleine, and Amiens Cathedral. Its national shrine, Lourdes, is visited by 5 million pilgrims yearly.[8] The capital city, Paris, is a major pilgrimage site for Catholics as well."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_France

So Catholicism is still pretty much the single, dominant religion in France. All the more remarkable that the vote was so hugely one-sided (780-72), with members of the far-right Reconquête Party comprising most of the 72 opposed.

NOTE: "Reconquête" translates to "Reconquest"... Make France Great Again?, Take back our country? Sounds familiar doesn't it? :eye-poppi
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Such precision.

By that standard, I would be considered Catholic.

Christian nationalism is a last gasp attempt to prevent the continuing erosion of the power of superstition.​
 
France is officially Catholic? Are you sure about that?

It was. But it isn't today. Catholicism was once the state religion of France and continues to be the primary religion in French society.
Today the government itself is officially secular.

Thanks for the reminder, AC. The Catholic Church is so interwoven into French culture and history that I forgot it was no longer the official religion since the early 1900's.
 
Well, lucky us, there just might be a Constitutional Convention coming our way.
https://www.businessinsider.com/constitutional-convention-conservative-scholar-states-2022-8?op=1

Would be a heck of a thing if Repubs got the Convention they always wanted, but found the abortion amendment got put into the Constitution the opposite way they wanted...

Last I heard, there's an ongoing attempt to sue in court to call for one using some really, really old selections to make up for what they currently lack and other attempts to sue to make it happen in other ways.


With that said, I would expect a Constitutional Convention pulled off by the Republicans of today to have dire results, not least because the how much the ongoing efforts on the Republican side are being driven by extremely wealthy and decidedly pro-corruption forces in the US. The last Constitutional Convention in 1787 gave us an entirely new Constitution, to speak to how powerful such can be. To borrow some warnings about the dangers -

Why the Article V Convention Process is a Threat

As outlined in Common Cause’s 2021 report, Constitutional Chaos The Shadow Campaigns Aiming to Unravel Our Freedom, a constitutional convention is open to many problems, including:

THREAT OF A RUNAWAY CONVENTION: There is nothing in the Constitution to prevent a constitutional convention from being expanded in scope to issues not raised in convention calls passed by the state legislatures, and therefore could lead to a runaway convention.
INFLUENCE OF SPECIAL INTERESTS: An Article V convention would open the Constitution to revisions at a time of extreme gerrymandering and polarization amid unlimited political spending. It could allow special interests and the wealthiest to re-write the rules governing our system of government.
LACK OF CONVENTION RULES: There are no rules governing constitutional conventions. A convention would be an unpredictable Pandora’s Box; the last one, in 1787, resulted in a brand-new Constitution. One group advocating for a “Convention of States” openly discusses the possibility of using the process to undo hard-won civil rights and civil liberties advances and undermine basic rights extended throughout history as our nation strove to deliver on the promise of a democracy that works for everyone.
THREAT OF LEGAL DISPUTES: No judicial, legislative, or executive body would have clear authority to settle disputes about a convention, opening the process to chaos and protracted legal battles that would threaten the functioning of our democracy and economy.
APPLICATION PROCESS UNCERTAINTY: There is no clear process on how Congress or any other governmental body would count and add up Article V applications, or if Congress and the states could restrain the convention’s mandate based on those applications.
POSSIBILITY OF UNEQUAL REPRESENTATION: It is unclear how states would choose delegates to a convention, how states and citizens would be represented in a convention, and who would ultimately get to vote on items raised in a convention.

Simply put, an Article V constitutional convention is a dangerous and uncontrollable process that would put Americans’ constitutional rights up for grabs.
 
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I think what's fascinating is how quickly Ireland has turned against the Church. In the Western World religiosity has been on a steady decline. But in comparison, in Ireland it has imploded.

I think the priest sex abuse and the Magdalene Laundries scandals had a lot to do with that.
 
I think the priest sex abuse and the Magdalene Laundries scandals had a lot to do with that.

There have been so many scandals in Ireland involving the Catholic Church it is ridiculous. There have been huge problems with orphanages, pedophile priests and Magdalene Laundries.

This has been accompanied by a disconnect between the public, the parishioners and the church.

It thrills me to no end.
 
One man's opinion two years ago doesn't mean that much to me. Especially one that has made this his goal.
That's the opinion of one who wants one. Most of the articles I've read warn about the possibility of one happening.

I would say if it ever came to pass, it would be the most chaotic thing I'd ever witness in my lifetime. Even compared to the craziness that was the pandemic. I would hope that the repubs realized just how much the American public would welcome an opportunity to enshrine abortion rights in the Constitution, and would go have a rethink. But then again, deep thinking isn't how we got to where we are today...
 
That's the opinion of one who wants one. Most of the articles I've read warn about the possibility of one happening.

I would say if it ever came to pass, it would be the most chaotic thing I'd ever witness in my lifetime. Even compared to the craziness that was the pandemic. I would hope that the repubs realized just how much the American public would welcome an opportunity to enshrine abortion rights in the Constitution, and would go have a rethink. But then again, deep thinking isn't how we got to where we are today...

You speak as if popular opinion would have much effect on what's done in the Constitutional Convention, though. Given that most of the major pushes are being done by those wishing to circumvent popular opinion or remove the ability to change things with popular opinion, thus helping to entrench those with power, it's hard to count on them allowing the public any real say in the first place. I'll agree that it would be interesting if it happened, but I don't rate the chances of it happening very highly, even with chaos.
 
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That's the opinion of one who wants one. Most of the articles I've read warn about the possibility of one happening.

I would say if it ever came to pass, it would be the most chaotic thing I'd ever witness in my lifetime. Even compared to the craziness that was the pandemic. I would hope that the repubs realized just how much the American public would welcome an opportunity to enshrine abortion rights in the Constitution, and would go have a rethink. But then again, deep thinking isn't how we got to where we are today...

I'm someone that thinks the US Constitution was written poorly. There are some aspects of it that were and are great. It was the best they could do at the time. But they baked into the cake problems that are getting worse.

But a Constitutional Convention with the crazy conservatives controlling it would be a major disaster.
 
As this supposedly "freedom of religion, separation of Church and State" government delves farther and farther into religious ideology, a country officially Catholic give more freedom to its female citizens to make their own decisions over their bodies. This could be a hilarious Monty Python skit if it weren't so pathetic.

France hasn't been officially catholic since 1870, and they take their laïcité seriously over there.
 
Yeah, its not officially Catholic in the sense of it being the state religion, nonetheless...

"Estimates of the proportion of Catholics in 2020 range between 47% and 88% of France's population, with the higher figure including lapsed Catholics and "Catholic atheists". The Catholic Church in France is organised into 98 dioceses, which in 2012 were served by 7,000 sub-75 priests.[7] 80 to 90 priests are ordained every year, although the church would need eight times as many to compensate the number of priest deaths. Approximately 45,000 Catholic church buildings and chapels are spread out among 36,500 cities, towns, and villages in France, but a majority are no longer regularly used for mass. Notable churches of France include Notre Dame de Paris, Chartres Cathedral, Reims Cathedral, and Basilique du Sacre-Coeur, Eglise de la Madeleine, and Amiens Cathedral. Its national shrine, Lourdes, is visited by 5 million pilgrims yearly.[8] The capital city, Paris, is a major pilgrimage site for Catholics as well."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_France

So Catholicism is still pretty much the single, dominant religion in France. All the more remarkable that the vote was so hugely one-sided (780-72), with members of the far-right Reconquête Party comprising most of the 72 opposed.


NOTE: "Reconquête" translates to "Reconquest"... Make France Great Again?, Take back our country? Sounds familiar doesn't it? :eye-poppi
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Functionally speaking even the low end estimate is wrong, most of the 47% are a la carte catholics as the church itself derisively calls them, people who don't follow church teaching but still retain a vestigial attachment to their ancestral religion.

The 88% is laughable.
 
I think the priest sex abuse and the Magdalene Laundries scandals had a lot to do with that.

Looking at the long term census data, you get to see that those scandals were accelerants of the decline rather than causes. Vocations for nuns (in the 70's) and monks (80's) had fallen off a cliff that by the turn of the millenium both categories numbered about 1,000 in the Irish census, mostly retired. The priesthood numbers held up longer, largely due to the retention of political and social power, but is so bad now most dioces don't have one priest per parish, and ones like Dublin are facing the necessity of closing down 1/3 of their churches over the next few years.
 
Such precision.

By that standard, I would be considered Catholic.

Christian nationalism is a last gasp attempt to prevent the continuing erosion of the power of superstition.​

Yeah, that higher number (assuming it's even correct) is the Catholic church counting anyone who has ever been baptized. This is why the practice of official deconversion from the Catholic church (as in submitting formal paperwork to the Catholic church) gained some prominence in the memetic landscape about 15-20 years ago (the idea being that someone like Sinéad O'Connor, who converted to Islam, would have died a Catholic for the purposes of record keeping by the Catholic church without this formal renunciation —I'm not sure if she ever did this, it's just an example).

Of course, the proportion of people baptized in the Catholic church who have nothing to do with it and are either areligious, antireligious or simply not Catholic and members of a different religion who have actually filed such a formal request is infinitesimal. There is, allegedly, some practical implication in the sometimes even secular governments provide small benefits to religion and a larger one will get more benefits (so it can be in the interest of a religious group to portray itself as being larger, not just for PR purposes, but also for other practical reasons).

So yeah, I'm a Catholic by this metric as well (despite my actual viewpoint being something resembling strong atheism).
 

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