This is also weird. I don't think we should give him credit for his work because he's not well off enough. I think we should give him credit for his work because we should admit to the nature of the world. I don't say that sky is blue because the sky deserves it, I say it because it's true.
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Split Thread Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla
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This is also weird. I don't think we should give him credit for his work because he's not well off enough. I think we should give him credit for his work because we should admit to the nature of the world. I don't say that sky is blue because the sky deserves it, I say it because it's true.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
I see it the other way around: If you're going to give Musk discredit for his failures, you should also give him credit for his successes.
dirtywick
Penultimate Amazing
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well, it is quite different in that it sounds a lot less impressive, but isn't that what you're lauding him for? satellite telecommunications, space travel, electric vehicles, solar panels, social media, he didn't invent or found any of it and he's not the only one doing any of them. i drive a dodge, use tds fiber, and aren't going into space any time soon, and i don't laud any of them either.
he's beating his competitors out to varying degrees in each, great. he makes products people like, he's a good businessman, who give a ****. why isn't that good enough, why does it have to be more? why does he need my praise? to offset the negativity he gets? if the ceo of dodge or tds fiber went on twitter and spread jewish conspiracy theories would i have to talk about how much more affordable it is than cable before i **** on him?
that's kind of the point though. what his laudable achievements are is entirely running various successful businesses. he makes products people like. he's not charitable or kind or giving, in fact he's mostly self absorbed and petty. he lies a lot, and cheats people too. he publicly slanders people. he's arrogant and a jerk. he's a manipulator. he's dishonest.
but he makes products people like.
My point is that you're actually not agreeing with me. I think SpaceX is a major achievement not because it "makes products people like", but because it's revolutionized the launch industry. If you disagree with that, that's totally cool. I just hope you don't pretend that when I say that's a major achievement I'm saying the same thing that you are.
As I said, I agree about many of the negative things that you have to say about Musk (though not all of them). We seem to disagree about the importance of some of his achievements. I think that's totally reasonable, I just hope we can be clear about where that disagreement is.
You also seem to disagree with those who claim that SpaceX is a scam. I hope you're willing to both say where you disagree with me, and say where you disagree with them.
As I said, I agree about many of the negative things that you have to say about Musk (though not all of them). We seem to disagree about the importance of some of his achievements. I think that's totally reasonable, I just hope we can be clear about where that disagreement is.
You also seem to disagree with those who claim that SpaceX is a scam. I hope you're willing to both say where you disagree with me, and say where you disagree with them.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
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Whose post are you quoting?
dirtywick
Penultimate Amazing
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ok that’s totally fair. but, while i think his companies have been innovative and successful, i don’t feel that we need to acknowledge that with every criticism in order to be fair to him. or to use it as a deflection. particularly because i believe over time it’s apparent that his personal involvement in any innovation is likely to be overblown imo and i will admit that’s just my personal opinion on it. it’s why i’ll give him credit for ownership, i doubt he was too heavily involved in the rocketry beyond that capacity.
i don’t think it’s a scam and yeah people really shouldn’t be saying that, and i’m pretty sure i made a post to that effect in this thread. his crypto escapades were a scam so if you want to call him a scammer just stick to that imo
https://www.teslarati.com/group-claims-responsibility-tesla-attacks-germany/
it is linked in RRs post under the word "this"
Roger hasn't been criticising people in this thread for being "haters"?
I thought his labeling of haters was about those people he responded to in this thread that he described as haters... Not people from the internet where you can find all and any kind of extremism.
One lives and learns.
erwinl
Illuminator
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Roger hasn't been criticising people in this thread for being "haters"?
I thought his labeling of haters was about those people he responded to in this thread that he described as haters... Not people from the internet where you can find all and any kind of extremism.
One lives and learns.
Yeah, I thought it to be odd as well.
Dismissing posts made here, based on what can be found in other places of the internet.
Roger hasn't been criticising people in this thread for being "haters"?
I thought his labeling of haters was about those people he responded to in this thread that he described as haters... Not people from the internet where you can find all and any kind of extremism.
One lives and learns.
Meh, I just pointed out where the quote was from.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Not sure how you got that impression. I absolutely am including all those other people on the internet, not just the ones in this thread. I'm also quite certain that the haters here didn't dream up all their talking points themselves - they got most of it from outside sources.Roger hasn't been criticising people in this thread for being "haters"?
I thought his labeling of haters was about those people he responded to in this thread that he described as haters... Not people from the internet where you can find all and any kind of extremism.
One lives and learns.
However in this case I was responding to someone saying I am 'the negative of a "hater" but the behavior is the same' without specifying only haters in this thread. Therefore it is perfectly legitimate for me to show an example of haters' behavior from outside of this thread. And in case anyone hasn't noticed, the haters in this thread are acting just the same as those in other places.
BTW I doubt that the group claiming responsibility for those Tesla fires are actually responsible for all (or even any) of them. Germany has suffered from this kind of behavior for years, well before Tesla arrived.
Berlin Registers Hundreds of Arson Attacks on Cars Every Year
I think it's more likely that these haters are too cowardly to commit arson themselves, but quite happy to goad others into doing it. And they call Musk an *******.
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angrysoba
Philosophile
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
Ridiculous:
Lawyers who successfully argued Musk pay package was illegal seek $5.6 billion in Tesla stock
Getting paid a fair price for their services, sure. Making off with unearned and undeserved billions would be highway robbery of the very people whose interests they were allegedly serving. What a shameful request.
Lawyers who successfully argued Musk pay package was illegal seek $5.6 billion in Tesla stock
Getting paid a fair price for their services, sure. Making off with unearned and undeserved billions would be highway robbery of the very people whose interests they were allegedly serving. What a shameful request.
The lawyers argue that they had to work without pay for five years, and if they lost, they would have got nothing. Apparently, law is a high-risk, high-profit business.
I wonder how many lawyers are involved. It is a fine wage for five years of work for two lawyers, but if there were 3000 lawyers, it would just be a normal wage for each!
When my brother-in-law had a divorce that went to court, he was surprised to find that his lawyer and his wife’s lawyers both were eager to raise the amount of disputed assets. It turned out that the lawyers were supposed to earn a percentage of the disputed values mentioned in court documents, even if that was three times higher than what actually there.
I wonder if the Tesla shareholder’s lawyers similarly can argue that they should have a certain percentage of the disputed assets.
Similar happens over here - you hear about some fantastic payment has been awarded and then learn out of £40 million the lawyers want £38 million!
Of course lawyers need to be paid and they may have taken on some risk that if the case isn't successful they wouldn't get paid but it does seem excessive. Personally, I'd have it that there was a maximum cap of a third of any judgementgabeygoat
Master Poster
dumb question, but whose stock do they get?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Tesla's, probably. Whoever the actual counterparty in the suit is.
Most corporations hold some of their own stock, for various reasons. They might buy back stock to adjust their liquidity levels or other metrics of interest to investors, lenders, etc. They might buy stock regularly, so they can transfer it to employees as part of a compensation package. Etc.
Assuming Tesla is the counterparty in the suit, and is therefore liable for this claim, Tesla would have to give some of the stock it holds to these guys. If the company wasn't holding enough stock to cover the liability, they'd buy more stock (either publicly or privately) until they had enough.
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