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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

Mojo said:
Was the diver named?




And?
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As a journalist, I am assuming Rabe checked her sources, verified the ID of the diver and also took steps to corroborate his claim. The Swedish naval diver of course would be subject to confidentiality clauses, which is why journalists are protected from revealing their sources except under a court order, in the acceptable pursuit of the public interest.

I have no reason to believe she has made anything up. She might be wrong in some matters as often things are not as they seem. When people know they are speaking to a journalist they might be eager to put across a particular viewpoint but that doesn't mean she herself has acted in bad faith.

ETA: as for Germany not signing the Estonia Treaty, from wiki:

The Estonia Agreement 1995, a treaty among Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Denmark, Russia and the United Kingdom, declared sanctity over the site, prohibiting their citizens from even approaching the wreck.[39] The treaty is, however, only binding for citizens of the countries that are signatories.
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Three questions for you:

  • 1. Which is the only Baltic country not to sign the agreement? *
  • 2. Which is the only non-Baltic country to sign the agreement, and (3) why?


    *By 'Baltic' is meant countries with borders touching the Baltic Sea coast line.
 
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Jack by the hedge said:
So Rabe is the sole source of that rumour. I wonder why nobody else ever talks about it.



MI6 rather than M16, I guess you mean. So you have a conspiracy theory in your imagination that the *real* investigation was a secret one conducted by spies. How thrilling.



That was not the reason the Swedish prosecutor "popped up", as we all saw. Their reason was to say the investigation was not revealing anything new for them to act upon so as far as they were concerned the case is closed. You know this because you posted about it, so why are you now not sure what they said?
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The last time the Swedish prosecutor popped up, as it were, was to appeal against the sentencing for Henrik Evertsson and Linus Andersson. It seems bizarre to me for them to suddenly refer to the sinking itself a propos of, it seems, nothing. On what basis were they investigating?

The accident did not take place in Sweden's waters.
 
Vixen said:
As a journalist, I am assuming Rabe checked her sources, verified the ID of the diver and also took steps to corroborate his claim.
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You misspelled "no."

You told us you don't believe the captain was murdered. There is no reason for you to keep defending claims you don't believe.
 
JayUtah said:
You misspelled "no."

You told us you don't believe the captain was murdered. There is no reason for you to keep defending claims you don't believe.
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Please read carefully. I said that all I have is an opinion, and one that is irrelevant. However, as you asked my opinion I gave it and said murder was 'highly unlikely' given I have not investigated the case first hand. Jutta Rabe OTOH has actually researched the case as an investigative journalist and spoken to people directly. She reports that a Swedish naval diver claimed to have seen what he identifies as a bullet wound in the captain's forehead.

Nota Bene: the word reports. Rabe is reporting what she was told from what she would have ascertained a reliable source, as far as one can do. For example, verifying that he was indeed a diver for the Swedish navy as of that time and place.
 
Vixen said:
Please read carefully. I said that all I have is an opinion, and one that is irrelevant. However, as you asked my opinion I gave it and said murder was 'highly unlikely' given I have not investigated the case first hand. Jutta Rabe OTOH has actually researched the case as an investigative journalist and spoken to people directly. She reports that a Swedish naval diver claimed to have seen what he identifies as a bullet wound in the captain's forehead.

Nota Bene: the word reports. Rabe is reporting what she was told from what she would have ascertained a reliable source, as far as one can do. For example, verifying that he was indeed a diver for the Swedish navy as of that time and place.
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Rabe claims that an unidentified person that she claims claimed to be a Swedish naval diver claimed to have seen a body that they claimed to have identified as that of Cpt. Piht, with what they claimed was a bullet wound in their head.

No evidence provided. All there is are claims. All there are are claims? All there are is claims? That syntax got weird, but I digress. Point is: unevidenced claims and a flair for the dramatic melodramatic is all Rabe has ever had.

Nota Bene: This would be the same Cpt. Piht that you have previously suggested (vociferously, and at exhausting length) was spirited away by nefarious actors, in order to achieve some nebulously evil twattery.

TLDR: We've all read your bat-**** conspiracies theories before. There is no need to repeat them yet again.
 
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junkshop said:
Rabe claims that an unidentified person that she claims claimed to be a Swedish naval diver claimed to have seen a body that they claimed to have identified as that of Cpt. Piht, with what they claimed was a bullet wound in their head.

No evidence provided. All there is are claims.

[<snip invective>.
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We are talking about Captain Arvo Andresson.
 
Vixen said:
Or do you have a rational basis for the jibe?
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Her lack of corroboration for such a sensationalist criminal accusation.

Vixen said:
I have no reason to believe she has made anything up.
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Shifting the burden of proof. Without additional evidence, no one has any reason to believe her claim that the captain was murdered.

Vixen said:
As a journalist, I am assuming Rabe checked her sources, verified the ID of the diver and also took steps to corroborate his claim.
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The Swedish naval diver of course would be subject to confidentiality clauses, which is why journalists are protected from revealing their sources except under a court order, in the acceptable pursuit of the public interest.
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Vixen said:
Rabe is reporting what she was told from what she would have ascertained a reliable source, as far as one can do.
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I've highlighted the assumptions you've made along the way, which are doing all the heavy lifting in your maybe-maybe-not support of Rabe's claims.
 
Vixen said:
I am entirely objective and have an open mind.
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Evasion noted. Defend your uncritical approach.

I have not yet had an answer to my questions about this case.
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You've had several hundred pages of answers which you largely do not understand and largely do not care about. Further, you stress that these are not your questions, and that you're just reporting "current events." Which is it? Are you incessantly repeating conspiracy theories because you've adopted them as "your" questions, or are you completely disinterested in them and don't care if they're true or not?

Armchair detectives are worse than useless. Better investigators than you have no problem drawing conclusions from the picture of evidence before them.
 
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Vixen said:
We are talking about Captain Arvo Andresson.
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Fair point, I ****** up there.

Amended post, then:

Rabe claims that an unidentified person that she claims claimed to be a Swedish naval diver claimed to have seen a body that they claimed to have identified as that of Cpt. Andresson, with what they claimed was a bullet wound in their head.

No evidence provided. All there is are claims. All there are are claims? All there are is claims? That syntax got weird, but I digress. Point is: unevidenced claims and a flair for the dramatic melodramatic is all Rabe has ever had.

TLDR: We've all read your bat-**** conspiracies theories before. There is no need to repeat them yet again.
 
JayUtah said:
Her lack of corroboration for such a sensationalist criminal accusation.



Shifting the burden of proof. Without additional evidence, no one has any reason to believe her claim that the captain was murdered.





I've highlighted the assumptions you've made along the way, which are doing all the heavy lifting in your maybe-maybe-not support of Rabe's claims.
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You are welcome to your opinion. My opinion is that the German Group of Experts argue their case well and with integrity to the best of their ability.

In the recent tv docuseries on Finnish tv, 'Estonia' the Germans are depicted as well-dressed spivs in camel coats doing nudge-nudge deals in the courtyards and trying to get one across the others in an underhand way*. I didn't think this was a fair reflection.

(The rescue scenes were very good and utterly gripping, even if the story line was weak.)

*The Swedish JIAC member was similarly stereotyped as 'gay'. In the lift there is a small in-joke as he grooms his bouffant hair in the lift mirror.

The Estonian is depicted as irrational and paranoid.
 
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