Why I should vote for Trump?

Ivor the Engineer said:
I don't think I've tried to equate Trump to Biden or Republicans to Democrats.

I think both parties need a huge change to be worthy of running anything.

I think a significant change is coming. My guess is within 50 years. It will be largely driven by the pressure climate change and broader environmental degradation puts on society.

Many will look at the individual events as they unfold and try to make sense of them without ever realising they are just manifestations of our environment becoming ever less habitable and an ever more desperate scrabble for possession of what resources remain.

If you are a US citizen feel free to vote for the Republicans or Democrats, but neither party in their present form is going to help save you or your offspring, no matter what soothing words they pour in your ears.
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And how do you think that change is going to happen?

However, one party does provide some avenue for negotiation and actually has elements (representatives?) conducive to progressive change...maybe it would be worthwhile to engage with those elements. Perhaps that is how the change occurs.
 
Susheel said:
And how do you think that change is going to happen?

However, one party does provide some avenue for negotiation and actually has elements (representatives?) conducive to progressive change...maybe it would be worthwhile to engage with those elements. Perhaps that is how the change occurs.
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I think the change is going to happen through resource depletion and environmental collapse, as predicted in The Limits to Growth.

Voting for either Republicans or Democrats is just rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
I think a significant change is coming. My guess is within 50 years. It will be largely driven by the pressure climate change and broader environmental degradation puts on society.
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You are right that significant change is coming, and your timescale is roughly accurate too.

But you have the causes completely wrong. The coming upheaval is going to be primarily driven by the demographic collapse of the developed world. It's going to hit some countries earlier than others (for example, China is on the leading edge), but no developed country is going to escape unscathed We have no idea how to handle that, but it's going to be messy.

If you are a US citizen feel free to vote for the Republicans or Democrats, but neither party in their present form is going to help save you or your offspring, no matter what soothing words they pour in your ears.
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What offspring?
 
steenkh said:
When you don’t vote you are effectively supporting the majority vote. The election is still taking place, but you get the result that that the majority of voters voted for. You are not going to make a mark whatsoever. Except of course, you helped bring some candidate forward, who you could have voted against.

If for instance, Trump wins, and actually succeeds in taking over everything like his idol Putin did in Russia, you helped him do that, because you could have voted for Biden.
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The good news is, probably not. Most of our votes don't matter because most of us live in places that are hard R or hard D. I kind of regret moving to a place that's kind of in between. When I lived in San Francisco I could vote for who ever I wanted and not worry about possibly benefiting the worst of the two.

Donal said:
We literally did that once.
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I laughed at that, I probably shouldn't have.

Side note, I've not been paying attention to this thread, has anyone actually come up with a reason to vote for trump? Honestly, give me a reason to vote for Biden other than he's not trump would be more interesting.
 
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ahhell said:
Side note, I've not been paying attention to this thread, has anyone actually come up with a reason to vote for trump? Honestly, give me a reason to vote for Biden other than he's not trump would be more interesting.
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That's the thing. I forget who here said it, but it really sums up the situation. People want reasons to vote for Biden and excuses to vote for Trump.

I disagree a lot with Biden and wish he was doing more, but he is a serious adult who is honestly trying to perform the duties of his office.

He's been more pro-labor than any president since FDR. Granted, that's more of a commentary on how neoliberal our overall political scene is than it is on how "socialist" Biden is.

He's trying to lower the burdens on families. I just wish he didn't insist on doing it all within the confines of neoliberalism.

So, we can go after Biden for the specifics, but can we agree we should have an actual adult who can at least attempt empathy in the White House?
 
Donal said:
That's the thing. I forget who here said it, but it really sums up the situation. People want reasons to vote for Biden and excuses to vote for Trump.

I disagree a lot with Biden and wish he was doing more, but he is a serious adult who is honestly trying to perform the duties of his office.

He's been more pro-labor than any president since FDR. Granted, that's more of a commentary on how neoliberal our overall political scene is than it is on how "socialist" Biden is.

He's trying to lower the burdens on families. I just wish he didn't insist on doing it all within the confines of neoliberalism.

So, we can go after Biden for the specifics, but can we agree we should have an actual adult who can at least attempt empathy in the White House?
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Funny, I agree with your conclusion but none of your reasoning. I don't care if the president has empathy, I want them to be competent though, but this time I'm settling for not a crazy person.
 
ahhell said:
Funny, I agree with your conclusion but none of your reasoning. I don't care if the president has empathy, I want them to be competent though, but this time I'm settling for not a crazy person.
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It's like a re-envisioning of South Park. We've got a choice between an Insane Person and an Old Guy with Dementia.

I just want someone else than either of them. Whichever party platforms someone else is probably going to get my vote.
 
Donal said:
So, policy doesn't matter, just aesthetics?
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Policy matters but so does competency, I don't actually think either potential candidate is especially competent, so that leaves me with the one that's least dangerous.
Emily's Cat said:
Both parties have policies that I am extremely opposed to. Neither of them suits my views. The least they can do is platform someone who's brain functions appropriately.
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Yep.

As a result of this forum, yesterday I took a bunch of those political surveys to see who I matched, turns out libertarian and/or republican but they are both crazy ******* parties. What am I to do. I'll go with the demented guy.
 
ahhell said:
Policy matters but so does competency, I don't actually think either potential candidate is especially competent, so that leaves me with the one that's least dangerous. Yep.

As a result of this forum, yesterday I took a bunch of those political surveys to see who I matched, turns out libertarian and/or republican but they are both crazy ******* parties. What am I to do. I'll go with the demented guy.
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Lol, if I were to venture a guess, I would suspect you fall into the same category that I do, of "classic liberal". Unfortunately, our extremely sensible views don't exist for any party any more. The closest, at least philosophically, for me ends up being libertarian... But what the "Big L" Libertarian party represents is not at all what the "little l" libertarian philosophy represents.
 
One reason to vote for Trump is the people he surrounds himself with. The many, many people. I believe he had 4 different Chiefs of Staff in 4 years, the briefest spokesperson ever. The majority of cabinet members in the end were "Acting" Secretaries. In this way, no one person can get into excessive trouble, everybody has to walk around on tip-toes. You never know when the axe is going to fall... and fall... and fall. In short, dysfunction has its merits.
 
Ryan O'Dine said:
One reason to vote for Trump is the people he surrounds himself with. The many, many people. I believe he had 4 different Chiefs of Staff in 4 years, the briefest spokesperson ever. The majority of cabinet members in the end were "Acting" Secretaries. In this way, no one person can get into excessive trouble, everybody has to walk around on tip-toes. You never know when the axe is going to fall... and fall... and fall. In short, dysfunction has its merits.
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No, no, no. I get that you are joking but no. His first time around he folks that would say no and at least had a notion how government works. That aint happening this time.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Lol, if I were to venture a guess, I would suspect you fall into the same category that I do, of "classic liberal". Unfortunately, our extremely sensible views don't exist for any party any more. The closest, at least philosophically, for me ends up being libertarian... But what the "Big L" Libertarian party represents is not at all what the "little l" libertarian philosophy represents.
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Yep, I have a choice between two parties, the first is wrong and the other is mostly correct but lying to me. And then there's the Libertarians.......
 
Ryan O'Dine said:
One reason to vote for Trump is the people he surrounds himself with. The many, many people. I believe he had 4 different Chiefs of Staff in 4 years, the briefest spokesperson ever. The majority of cabinet members in the end were "Acting" Secretaries. In this way, no one person can get into excessive trouble, everybody has to walk around on tip-toes. You never know when the axe is going to fall... and fall... and fall. In short, dysfunction has its merits.
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You're assuming that keeping them on their toes means them performing their duties to the best of their abilities for the benefit of the country when what it actually means is having their noses firmly wedged in the darkest and sweatiest of crevices in the building and never contradicting that crevice in any way.

Did you ever watch videos of his cabinet meetings? They were little more than a four-yorkshiremen act of praising the King. Difficult to believe that a group of self-respecting adults might demean themselves that way in a democracy.
 
steenkh said:
And what political effect did this have - apart from helping the winning party, presumably the tories?
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Made me feel better about living in a Tory stronghold, 2019 was nearly 55% Tory with Labour coming second at 20%, and has been since the early 1900's

Council stuff I take much more seriously as we've had a Green representative who's been doing well
 
Mongrel said:
You can just spoil your ballot paper, more than once I've written "They're all wankers" across mine. It's not a proper protest if it can be mistaken for apathy and they actually look at spoiled ballots
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You have to be careful how you do it though, I heard about one candidate who picked up a vote because someone drew a cock & balls in the box. On the other hand another candidate got a vote when someone wrote "Wanker" next to all the other names & "Not a Wanker" next to theirs. (The former may be an urban legend, the latter is definately true)
 
P.J. Denyer said:
You have to be careful how you do it though, I heard about one candidate who picked up a vote because someone drew a cock & balls in the box. On the other hand another candidate got a vote when someone wrote "Wanker" next to all the other names & "Not a Wanker" next to theirs. (The former may be an urban legend, the latter is definately true)
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See the link in post #383
 
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