Should David Bain get compensation?

[Samson]

He's right on at least one count. New Zealand has to de-politicise issues of compensation for wrongful conviction. Politicians should not be allowed anywhere near these kinds of decisions, it should be a matter for the courts and the courts alone.

As I have said before, I am very much in favour of a system that is something like the American system of a "penalty phase" after a guilty verdict in a first degree murder trial. IMO, ALL criminal trials should have penalty phase, whether the verdict is guilty or not guilty. This is how I envisage it working...

When there is guilty verdict, the penalty phase is simply what happens now. The judge passes sentence, and the defendant is taken down and serves his sentence

In a not guilty verdict, first and foremost, the defendant should have ALL of their costs reimbursed, coming out of the other end of the process no worse off financially than they were going in. The defendant submits his costs schedule and the jury rubber stamps the payment. However, the jury should also be able to decide on punitive damages where the prosecutor's case was so poor that they believe it should never have gone to trial, e.g. the Ewen McKenzie trial

However, when there is a retrial and a guilty verdict is overturned (e.g. David Bain, Arthur Thomas, David Dougherty, Teina Pora), the jury should decide on the question of compensation. Both sides put their case for and/or against compensation as well as stating the amount that should be paid, and the jury retires again to deliberate.

We will never have justice for the wrongfully convicted in this country until politicians with personal agendas are taken out of the loop. Compensation claims in these cases have far too many delays.... justice delayed is justice denied. Unfortunately such a change would take an act of Parliament... and last time I heard, turkeys never vote for Christmas.

PS: I would also change our verdict system to a three verdict system, but that is another discussion.

I believe this Binnie interview and the disgusting Temple Camp book which was not ambushed are plausible game changers.
Collins is human excrement. A disgusting pig in lipstick.
That flatters.

 

[The Atheist]

Ah, dear old Baino, now residing in Aussie under a different name...

While his best buddy, confidante and groomsman, Paul Wilson gets sentenced for a murder committed since David's wedding.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12216916

Hasn't had much to say on the subject, our David.

And Wilson's only killed two people.

 

[Samson]

Ah, dear old Baino, now residing in Aussie under a different name...

While his best buddy, confidante and groomsman, Paul Wilson gets sentenced for a murder committed since David's wedding.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12216916

Hasn't had much to say on the subject, our David.

And Wilson's only killed two people.

David Bain wasn't the only person he fooled, the whole judiciary and penal system were fooled.
David Bain is in professional company.

 

[Fixit]

Why should he say anything?

 

[The Atheist]

Why should he say anything?

He had plenty to say when he was asked about including him the wedding party.

Seems only reasonable he should be called on the enormous praise he lavished on Wilson at that time.

 

[Samson]

He had plenty to say when he was asked about including him the wedding party.

Seems only reasonable he should be called on the enormous praise he lavished on Wilson at that time.

The problem here is he was denied free association by the state for 13 years to seek unimpeachable company. And then he was entitled to rely on the professional opinion of the parole board to support his own judgement.

 

[Samson]

New Zealand now must choose between an ex minister for justice and an ex opposition spokesperson for justice, Judith Collins and Jacinda Ardern.

They are both fatally flawed by the chain of evidence. I feel alone in utterly despising both, Collins for being wrong on Bain, and for pouring contempt on Ian Binnie in her nasty little book

Pull no Punches.

ETA, Lashl weighed in early

Ian Binnie, who is a retired Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, is certainly no slouch, so I am interested in reading his take on the matter.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10344762&postcount=21

 

[The Atheist]

In Stuff today - https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/blackhands/the-perfect-family/

Guilty as sin.

One of the jurors, a law student who was later revealed to have a recent conviction for stealing a large sum from her Christchurch employer, had earlier gone up to David and given him a hug. A male juror, who seemed to have become good friends with the hugging juror during the trial, shook David's hand. Both jurors later turned up at the party although didn't stay long.

 

[Samson]

In Stuff today - https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/blackhands/the-perfect-family/

Guilty as sin.

Here are some agreed facts

1. Robin Bain died by one bullet.
2. The silencer was in contact with his temple.
3. The bullet trajectory was wholly consistent with suicide.
4. Laniet accused Robyn of incest and vowed to expose him the night before the deaths.
5. David's foot was two big for the bloody footprint so it was made by Robin.
6. Martin van Beynen is an obsessive, lying dickhead.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

In Stuff today - https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/blackhands/the-perfect-family/

Guilty as sin.

Please link to the actual quote.

 

[The Atheist]

Here are some agreed facts

1. Robin Bain died by one bullet.
2. The silencer was in contact with his temple.
3. The bullet trajectory was wholly consistent with suicide.
4. Laniet accused Robyn of incest and vowed to expose him the night before the deaths.
5. David's foot was two big for the bloody footprint so it was made by Robin.
6. Martin van Beynen is an obsessive, lying dickhead.

Agreed by you.

The only reason David isn't still where he belongs is that the cops screwed up.

Please link to the actual quote.

I did. That exact quote, word for word, is in the link.

 

[Samson]

Agreed by you.

The only reason David isn't still where he belongs is that the cops screwed up.



I did. That exact quote, word for word, is in the link.

I find it fascinating that you are uninterested in the contact to the temple and the suicide trajectory through the brain.
If you avoid this conundrum I can never believe another word you say.

 

[The Atheist]

I find it fascinating that you are uninterested in the contact to the temple and the suicide trajectory through the brain.

I'm extremely interested in it.

Sadly, the police didn't preserve the evidence and Baino walked free.

I bet he sleeps well. I just feel sorry for the twisted children he's bringing up. That's one Kiwi Aussie is welcome to.

 

[Samson]

I'm extremely interested in it.

Sadly, the police didn't preserve the evidence and Baino walked free.

I bet he sleeps well. I just feel sorry for the twisted children he's bringing up. That's one Kiwi Aussie is welcome to.

I posted often enough the pathologists first notebook entry about 10am.
There was a 4 mil hole with a 10 mil ring of soot. He wrote "the silencer muzzle was in contact with the temple".
At that stage he could not know that the autopsy would discover a trajectory that was precisely consistent with Robin placing the gun butt on the floor, locating the silencer to his left temple, then reaching to the trigger with his right thumb.
It is not.possible for this scenario to be compelled with no margin of error by a second party, ie David Bain


Lord some one please come to this thread and help the Atheist.

 

[The Atheist]

At that stage he could not know that the autopsy would discover a trajectory that was precisely consistent with Robin placing the gun butt on the floor, locating the silencer to his left temple, then reaching to the trigger with his right thumb.

And being so determined to kill himself, he didn't bother to unscrew the silencer to give himself an extra 3 inches.

Yeah, right.

Have you ever fired a .22?

 

[Samson]

And being so determined to kill himself, he didn't bother to unscrew the silencer to give himself an extra 3 inches.

Yeah, right.

Have you ever fired a .22?

He didn't need the 3 inches but he did need the silencer on while he was killing his family.
You are now arguing from incredulity. No one has ever suggested he could not reach the trigger with silencer intact. Don't forget Charlie Wilkes vs Atheist on the marks on his thumb. Charlie won hands down, go back and check. This case is dead easy, like Lundy and Ewan MacDonald. Alibis, logistics, science,
Jesus we have a terrible pack of idiots, policing, prosecuting and judging.

 

[The Atheist]

He didn't need the 3 inches but he did need the silencer on while he was killing his family.

I repeat my question - have you ever fired a .22?

You are now arguing from incredulity. No one has ever suggested he could not reach the trigger with silencer intact.

I didn't say he couldn't reach it, just would have been much easier.

Don't forget Charlie Wilkes vs Atheist on the marks on his thumb. Charlie won hands down, go back and check.

Nonsense. I don't accept that at all. Charlie can say what he likes, just as Joe Karam did.

 

[Samson]

I repeat my question - have you ever fired a .22?



I didn't say he couldn't reach it, just would have been much easier.



Nonsense. I don't accept that at all. Charlie can say what he likes, just as Joe Karam did.

Without even referring back, Charlie said he got the same marks on his thumb loading a 22.
Like in the Lundy and MacDonald cases there is a pyramid of alibi material with the suicide trajectory and the muzzle contact at the top.
This is about one and only one chance to precisely simulate a suicide with a murder.

1. Research suicide trajectories with a long gun.
2. Force your victim to stand stock still while your trajectory research is validated.
3. Have actual contact to the temple to get the 4 mil hole and the 10 mil ring of soot.

You are not getting with the program, Ian Binnie versus Judith Collins is the worst and most egregious political ignorance and interference in our history, and she is still crowing.

Some things in life are simple, and this is peak simple.

A gun suicide is the simplest forensic conclusion to reach.
Gunshot from a distance is murder.
Contact gun shot with trajectory consistent with self delivery is suicide, not usually, always.
Remember your eureka moment when you realized Lundy was innocent, have another and post to your website.

 

[The Atheist]

Without even referring back, Charlie said he got the same marks on his thumb loading a 22.

Big ******* deal. I had identical marks from working on a car.

... Ian Binnie ...

Should be struck off for negligence and bias. The man made his mind up before he was ever tasked with the review.

Some things in life are simple, and this is peak simple.

I agree. David was a sick little SOB who decided to kill his entire family and blame his father. The paper round, the phone call, the blood on his hands, and his gun... The only sad thing about the case was he was so obviously guilty the cops didn't make sure the evidence was complete.

 

[Samson]

Big ******* deal. I had identical marks from working on a car.



Should be struck off for negligence and bias. The man made his mind up before he was ever tasked with the review.



I agree. David was a sick little SOB who decided to kill his entire family and blame his father. The paper round, the phone call, the blood on his hands, and his gun... The only sad thing about the case was he was so obviously guilty the cops didn't make sure the evidence was complete.

Posts like this encourage me to cancel membership.