Real İslam is only in Quran

[Emre_1974tr]

The sun doesn’t set in mud.

That is a fact.

In Turkish and Arabic we say the sun is sinking. But in English you say the sun is setting. If you try to translate this Arabic idiom into English one-to-one, you translate it as the sun is sinking. But in English the sun is setting. So the real translation of the verse is that the sun is setting. I hope you will not make me explain this simple truth for the millionth time.

Similarly, in Turkish we do not say "the sun is rising", we say "the sun is birthing". If you translate it one to one from Turkish, you say the sun is birthing, but the real translation is the sun is rising. Because the English idiom is different, the Turkish idiom is different. These are folk idioms.

Here in Zeytinli, the sun sets into the sea every day. But in Bursa it sets on the mountain.

 

[Little 10 Toes]

You missed the point. The sun does not set in mud. Or a dirty spring. Or dark turbid waters. Or any water.

https://quran.com/18/86?translations=17,20,57,84,95,18,85,101

Also, Allah cannot stop earthquakes even though the Quran said he can.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

In Turkish and Arabic we say the sun is sinking. But in English you say the sun is setting. If you try to translate this Arabic idiom into English one-to-one, you translate it as the sun is sinking. But in English the sun is setting. So the real translation of the verse is that the sun is setting. I hope you will not make me explain this simple truth for the millionth time.

Similarly, in Turkish we do not say "the sun is rising", we say "the sun is birthing". If you translate it one to one from Turkish, you say the sun is birthing, but the real translation is the sun is rising. Because the English idiom is different, the Turkish idiom is different. These are folk idioms.

Here in Zeytinli, the sun sets into the sea every day. But in Bursa it sets on the mountain.

There in Zeytenli, do you sit around the sun as it sets into the sea?
Do the people of Bursa sit close to the sun as it sets on the mountain?
Do they get burned to a crisp in the process?
Or is this another part of the unsupportable, poisonous nonsense that is the Qur'an, that you want to excuse or twist to make it fit your ridiculous apologetics?

Oh, and Emre: where in the Quran does it say that slavery is forbidden? And how do you explain the fact that the Prophet Mohammed kept slaves?

 

[Cosmic Yak]

It is curious that a supposedly all-powerful and all-knowing god chose to phrase his message to humanity in idioms that, if translated into other languages, make his message look ridiculous.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Here in Zeytinli, the sun sets into the sea every day. But in Bursa it sets on the mountain.

That is just geography.. Bursa is in the mountains, Zeytinli overlooks the ocean.

Also, their are many words and phrases in English to describe a sunset, or the setting of the sun. English is a very versatile and adaptable language. It can be literal AND poetic at the same time. So your translation is not the only one possible. It will depend on nuance and context. Which you are ignoring.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Emre_1974tr.

This is the 9th time I've asked you this.

The Quran states the following provably wrong, non-subjective falsehoods in a non-parable way.

1. It describes a geocentric solar system. This is factually wrong.
2. Similar to the Bible is describes the Earth as being created is six days. This is factually wrong.
3. It describes the Earth as being created before the stars. This is factually wrong.
4. It states that 7 Earths exist. This is factually wrong.
5. It describes the Earth and Moon as the same size and same distance from Earth. This is factually wrong.
6. It claims the Moon generates its own light. This is factually wrong.
7. It decrees that followers follow rituals that make no sense if the length of a day is variable, such as it is at higher latitudes.
8. Humans are created from clay. This is factually wrong.
9. Human descending from a magically created original pair of humans. This is factually wrong.
10. Sperms comes from the backbone and ribs. This is factually wrong.
11. Embryos are formed entirely from the semen. This is factually wrong.
12. It describes the heart as a thinking organ like the brain. This is factually wrong.
13. How you are supposed to face toward Mecca makes no sense if the Earth is round.
14. It describes salt and fresh water as not mixing in nature. This is factually wrong.
15. It describes a massive wall of iron as existing in Biblical (or Quranian or whatever) times. This is historically impossible.
16. It tells of Crucifixions occurring in Egypt at the time of Moses. This is historically inaccurate.
17. It repeats the oft repeated Noah flood myth.
18. It has a description of humans being turned into apes as punishment for breaking the Sabbath.
19. The whole flying horse thing which is in the Quran and I don't know why you try to lie and say it doesn't.
20. The inheritance rules don't add up mathematically, even if you round the numbers off.
21. Apparently if you have bangs you're a liar.

These are not "interpretations" or parables or "colorful language" or metaphors or some ancient people's interpretations of anything. They are falsehoods and lies.

 

[Scorpion]

In Turkish and Arabic we say the sun is sinking. But in English you say the sun is setting. If you try to translate this Arabic idiom into English one-to-one, you translate it as the sun is sinking. But in English the sun is setting. So the real translation of the verse is that the sun is setting. I hope you will not make me explain this simple truth for the millionth time.

Similarly, in Turkish we do not say "the sun is rising", we say "the sun is birthing". If you translate it one to one from Turkish, you say the sun is birthing, but the real translation is the sun is rising. Because the English idiom is different, the Turkish idiom is different. These are folk idioms.

Here in Zeytinli, the sun sets into the sea every day. But in Bursa it sets on the mountain.

The quran says the sun orbits the earth, therefore it is not from God.

when the quran says, at surah 21.33 and 36.40 and 36.38 that the sun has an orbit, Imams falsely claim this is a great revelation, because Muhammad knew the sun had an orbit in the galaxy. But the quran is actually saying the sun orbits the flat earth and is reset every dawn , and I can prove it with the following hadith.

Hadith Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421:
Narrated Abu Dhar:

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38)

As can be seen it says that if the sun changed direction it would rise in the west. But if the sun changed direction in its orbit in the galaxy it would make no difference to the sun rising in the east, because it is the rotation of the earth that causes the appearance of the sun in the east. The hadith is clearly saying the sun orbits the earth, and it is a fuller explanation of verse 36.38 in the quran.

 

[Scorpion]

Those who do not know the Quran continue with their ignorant comments.

In the Quran, an event is not described in a single surah. Different details of the same event are given in many suras. For example, the story of Noah is told very little in Surah Noah. But if you look at all the suras, that is, if you read the whole book, you can see all the details about the prophet Noah and Noah's flood. In the same way, all the details of all other events are in the whole Qur'an. Each surah gives some of the details, but if you read the whole book you will see all the details. Not only the events, but for example, how to Salaat, how to perform ablution, are explained in different surahs in different parts. You have to read the whole book to learn how to worship.

The false gospels/Bible are man-written books, so they are written in the style of history books. They distract you from the truth by giving you false information.

The only true holy book we have at the moment is the Qur'an.

Now you are telling us the Qurans lack of narrative in its stories is a positive thing. But the fact is the Qurans mumbling half remembered accounts of bible stories are obviously plagiarism from the bible.

Nothing makes this more obvious than the story of Noah and the ark.

DO TELL US, DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THE STORY IS TRUE?

How can you call this nonsense a holy book?

 

[Scorpion]

In this way;


1- You read the whole Book and master the subjects and information described in all verses. You will always evaluate the Book in its entirety.


2- If you read a few pages of the Qur'an every day, you will benefit from its healing therapy as if you had read the whole book. Because in the 2 pages you read, you will be informed about many subjects just like the whole book, and you will go on a dizzying journey from the facts about life to philosophy, from black holes in space to science and technology, to worship.

I read the whole book all through twice to see if I had missed anything.

As for healing therapy from the Quran, it beggars belief anyone could think this book of evil lies about God could be beneficial.

The Quran says anyone who fights against Allah and Muhammad should be killed or crucified. Or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides. Quran 5.33

It says unbelievers will be burned in eternal hellfire, and have their skins burnt off and renewed and burnt off again forever. Quran 4.56

 

[Cosmic Yak]

The quran says the sun orbits the earth, therefore it is not from God.

when the quran says, at surah 21.33 and 36.40 and 36.38 that the sun has an orbit, Imams falsely claim this is a great revelation, because Muhammad knew the sun had an orbit in the galaxy. But the quran is actually saying the sun orbits the flat earth and is reset every dawn , and I can prove it with the following hadith.

Hadith Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421:
Narrated Abu Dhar:

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38)

As can be seen it says that if the sun changed direction it would rise in the west. But if the sun changed direction in its orbit in the galaxy it would make no difference to the sun rising in the east, because it is the rotation of the earth that causes the appearance of the sun in the east. The hadith is clearly saying the sun orbits the earth, and it is a fuller explanation of verse 36.38 in the quran.

Don't bother quoting the Hadith: Emre doesn't believe in them.
It's the same with the vast majority of religious people. They think only their own personal beliefs are the real, true set of beliefs, and everyone else is just silly and deluded- or even heretical. They are not bothered at all by blatantly picking and choosing which bits of the canon to believe, which to ignore, and which bits are allegory, idiom, or just too embarrasing to even admit to, like god was having a bad day or something.
As an atheist, I have no such difficulty. I can happily dismiss the whole lot as fairy tales, and not have to worry about which silly stories are more true than other silly stories.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

It is curious that a supposedly all-powerful and all-knowing god chose to phrase his message to humanity in idioms that, if translated into other languages, make his message look ridiculous.

How is that 'curious'? God didn't create the English language, humans did - long after the Quran was written. Any 'ridiculous' looking translations are on us, not God.

The translations 'all-powerful' and 'all-knowing' are suspect too. It would be more correct to say most powerful and greatest knowing. Neither implies that God can do impossible things or know things that can't be known. Quantum mechanics says it's impossible to know everything precisely. In the Bible it says God gave Man free will, so He can't always know what we will do, nor can He force us to do something like eg. translate a word the way He wants.

The word 'set' comes from the Proto-Indo-European word 'sed' - to sit, be seated, or lay down in a resting place.

The word 'set' implies a place that the Sun sits in a seat or resting place when it goes down. That's silly, but some ancients believed that's what happened. The ancient Egyptians believed that at night it traveled through the underworld in a boat, to pop out the other side and rise in the East. They obviously didn't think the Earth was round and the Sun orbited it.

'Sinking' is more accurate, as it implies the Sun continues to move steadily after going down behind the horizon. it's going down, but not to a resting place. This suggests that it orbits the Earth, which is correct from a geocentric reference point.

Quran verse 21:33 says "...the sun and the moon; all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course". No mention of 'setting' ie. being set down, sitting, or going to a resting place.

In ~820AD al-Biruni - a Muslim - measured the radius of the Earth to between 2% and 20% accuracy (depending on which measure you use for a cubit), by observing the apparent height of a mountain in different places. He explained the phases of the Moon being due to its position relative to the Sun, which obviously means the Sun is always in the sky even after 'setting'. He argued that the Earth rotated and that elliptical orbits were possible because celestial bodies moved in a vacuum, not fixed to spheres as Aristotle claimed.

'Curiously', Al-Biruni was apparently not sanctioned or persecuted by the church for his scientific theories. It's almost like Islam was more receptive to science than Christianity was.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

In Turkish and Arabic we say the sun is sinking. But in English you say the sun is setting. If you try to translate this Arabic idiom into English one-to-one, you translate it as the sun is sinking. But in English the sun is setting. So the real translation of the verse is that the sun is setting.

How is that 'curious'? God didn't create the English language, humans did - long after the Quran was written. Any 'ridiculous' looking translations are on us, not God.

Perhaps reading some of the earlier posts might help you.
Emre referred to an 'Arabic idiom'. I also referred to idioms. You appear to have missed this. If a god wished to communicate clearly, especially a claim of scientific fact, it would have been better to avoid idioms.

The translations 'all-powerful' and 'all-knowing' are suspect too. It would be more correct to say most powerful and greatest knowing. Neither implies that God can do impossible things or know things that can't be known. Quantum mechanics says it's impossible to know everything precisely. In the Bible it says God gave Man free will, so He can't always know what we will do, nor can He force us to do something like eg. translate a word the way He wants.

This would be a valid point if the future of our supposed immortal souls wasn't resting on obtaining accurate information about what the deity wants from us.
Also, there's nothing stopping a deity from appearing in person to set the record straight. He apparently turned up all the time for Moses et al. Strangely, as recording technology has become more prevalent, those visits seem to have dried up.

Quran verse 21:33 says "...the sun and the moon; all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course". No mention of 'setting' ie. being set down, sitting, or going to a resting place.

Rounded course, otherwise known- and translated as- an orbit. The sun does not orbit the earth. Not sure why you're quoting this. to be honest: it just adds to my point. If god didn't want people to think the sun orbitted the earth, he shouldn't have said that it did.
I'll get back to you on the so-called Golden Age of Islam: short of time now. Suffice it to say, you are mistaken.

 

[Emre_1974tr]

Quran verse 21:33 says "...the sun and the moon; all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course". No mention of 'setting' ie. being set down, sitting, or going to a resting place.
5[/qimg]

Yes. Incidentally, the Holy Quran again corrects the errors in the false Bible by saying that the moon, sun and earth move in different orbits.

Holy Quran

36:40 The sun is not required to overtake the moon, nor will the night precede the day; each of them is swimming in its own orbit.

(Note that the Arabic word kul (all) refers to more than two bodies and it should include the sun, the moon, and the reference planet from the expression "night and day." It is also noteworthy that the Quran frequently uses the expression, "alternation of night and day" rather than "rotation of the Sun," pulling our attention to the rotation of the planet around itself. See 21:33; 27:88; 39:5; 68:1; 79:30.)

6:96 [He is] the One who causes the dawn to break; and He has made the night to be [a source of] stillness, and the sun and the moon to run their appointed courses [all] this is laid down by the will of the Almighty, the All-Knowing.

14:33 and has made the sun and the moon, both of them constant upon their courses, subservient [to His laws, so that they be of use] to you; and has made the night and the day subservient [to His laws, so that they be of use] to you.

36:38 The sun runs to a specific destination, such is the design of the Noble, the Knowledgeable.

21:33 He is the One who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each swimming in an orbit.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Yes. Incidentally, the Holy Quran again corrects the errors in the false Bible by saying that the moon, sun and earth move in different orbits.

Do you understand that nobody you speak to here believes in the Christian bible either? And that nobody here thinks the Christian Bible is "scientific". So whenever you say stuff like that highlighted above, it proves that you don't understand anything you are reading. I suspect this is the case not just for non-Islamic texts but also for the Quran.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

In ~820AD al-Biruni - a Muslim - measured the radius of the Earth to between 2% and 20% accuracy (depending on which measure you use for a cubit), by observing the apparent height of a mountain in different places. He explained the phases of the Moon being due to its position relative to the Sun, which obviously means the Sun is always in the sky even after 'setting'. He argued that the Earth rotated and that elliptical orbits were possible because celestial bodies moved in a vacuum, not fixed to spheres as Aristotle claimed.

'Curiously', Al-Biruni was apparently not sanctioned or persecuted by the church for his scientific theories. It's almost like Islam was more receptive to science than Christianity was.

'Was' is the operative word here. I've linked below to a very informative article about how Islam gradually began to reject science, until it pretty much abandoned scientific thought altogether. It's quite long, so I can't quote it fully here, as that would be against the MA. I'm afraid you're going to have to click on the link, open it yourself and read it. Sorry about that.

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science

I have experienced this lack of scientific thought processes myself, here in Saudi Arabia. Engineering students at university have assured me that shooting stars are weapons thrown by Allah, to stop demons eavesdropping on angels.
Emre's angle here is part of his sect's attempts to press scientific language into the service of their own peculiar version of Islam. Emre doesn't believe in science at all: he just wants to twist the words of the Quran, to make it appear that there are 'miraculous' scientific revelations in that book, so as to convert us. There's a perfect example of this above. It is sneaky and dishonest, but apparently it's OK to dissemble in the service of god, because reasons.

 

[dellarte]

Yes. Incidentally, the Holy Quran again corrects the errors in the false Bible by saying that the moon, sun and earth move in different orbits.

Holy Quran

Incidentally, the Prophet of the Religion of the Crescent undertook Isra' and Mi'raj, a return Night Journey on a winged mule (Buraq), from Mecca to the so-called Holy Temple in Jerusalem (Jewish) without realising the temple was destroyed centuries earlier by the Roman Empire.

This is the foundation of the PoRC and his followers.

 

[Garrison]

Yes. Incidentally, the Holy Quran again corrects the errors in the false Bible by saying that the moon, sun and earth move in different orbits.

Holy Quran

36:40 The sun is not required to overtake the moon, nor will the night precede the day; each of them is swimming in its own orbit.

(Note that the Arabic word kul (all) refers to more than two bodies and it should include the sun, the moon, and the reference planet from the expression "night and day." It is also noteworthy that the Quran frequently uses the expression, "alternation of night and day" rather than "rotation of the Sun," pulling our attention to the rotation of the planet around itself. See 21:33; 27:88; 39:5; 68:1; 79:30.)

6:96 [He is] the One who causes the dawn to break; and He has made the night to be [a source of] stillness, and the sun and the moon to run their appointed courses [all] this is laid down by the will of the Almighty, the All-Knowing.

14:33 and has made the sun and the moon, both of them constant upon their courses, subservient [to His laws, so that they be of use] to you; and has made the night and the day subservient [to His laws, so that they be of use] to you.

36:38 The sun runs to a specific destination, such is the design of the Noble, the Knowledgeable.

21:33 He is the One who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each swimming in an orbit.

Yeah the Quran doesn't really gets any brownie points for concluding 2+2 = 5
rather than 2+2 = 6. A different wrong answer is still a wrong answer.

 

[Emre_1974tr]

return Night Journey on a winged mule (Buraq),

There is no such thing in the Koran. It's an un-Islamic belief.

 

[Norman Alexander]

There is no such thing in the Koran. It's an un-Islamic belief.

Surah "Al-Isra" 17:1

Glory be to the One Who took His servant ˹Muḥammad˺ by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque whose surroundings We have blessed, so that We may show him some of Our signs. Indeed, He alone is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.

https://quran.com/17

In the Israʾ ("Night Journey"), Muhammad is said to have traveled on the back of Buraq (a winged horse-like animal) to Al-Aqsa (i.e. the Temple Mount), where he led other prophets including Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses), and Isa (Jesus) in prayer. He then ascended into heaven during the Miʿraj (Ascension), where he individually greeted the prophets, and later spoke to God, who agreed to lower the number of required ṣalāt (ritual prayer) from 50 a day to only five. The journey and ascent are marked as one of the most celebrated dates in the Islamic calendar — 27th of the Islamic month of Rajab.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isra'_and_Mi'raj

So it would seem it IS an Islamic belief. The problem would then be that you were wrong.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Holy Quran

36:40 The sun is not required to overtake the moon, nor will the night precede the day; each of them is swimming in its own orbit.

Emre, how could the sun overtake the moon? From my perspective, this surah was written by someone who had no idea how big the sun was, how far away it was, the relation of the moon to the earth, nor of how the earth orbits the sun, not the other way round.
Do you have an explanation for this ridiculous surah?

36:38 The sun runs to a specific destination, such is the design of the Noble, the Knowledgeable.

What destination is that? The muddy puddle, or somewhere else?

Oh, and where in the Qur'an does it say that slavery is forbidden? Addditionally, why did the Prophet Mulammed keep slaves, if slavery was forbidden?