jeremyp
Philosopher
No they don't. Russia was in a population crisis even before this war (so was Ukraine).
Cont: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine part 8
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No they don't. Russia was in a population crisis even before this war (so was Ukraine).
Dr.Sid
Philosopher
They have 143 million citizens, about half of them are men, about half of them are capable of fighting (or at least being moved to the front to die). Even if half of those run abroad that's still ten millions.
And then you have women, who still did very little dying for the motherland.
It's a sad and harsh piece of arithmetic but IMO true. It would take millions to die before there's a peep of complaint from the Russian people an tens of millions before they'd be prepared to do anything about it.
lobosrul5
Philosopher
And each one you take who isn't a worthless drug addict or prisoner was doing a job. That hurts Russia's economy. Russia is going to run out of "dregs of society" types or recent immigrants sooner rather than later. Once the working and middle classes get dragged off to fight things may change. And, if they start dragging women off to fight their population crisis will worsen. Also, Russia is a very patriarchal society, if they start putting women on the front lines thats a very clear sign to their people that things are going badly wrong in Ukraine.
Russia cannot draft millions of fit men and women with no consequences. Eventually there will be rioting in the streets, or an entire units of soldiers mutinying.
Dr.Sid
Philosopher
Yes. But it will happen before they stop sending men to death. And more importantly, they might run out of men after Ukraine does.
Training will be delivered on the front. Anyone who survives a few weeks will be considered fully trained.
I'm sure they'll be able to find some WWII (or WWI) surplus rifles somewhere for the cannon fodder and doubtless there's still a few thousand old tanks in storage
MarkCorrigan
Героям слава!
No. Just...no.
I know being a massive downer is your "thing" but be realistic about it at least.
Dr.Sid
Philosopher
Why give them training and weapons with that kind of losses ?
I mean you must move them to the front. Ukraine must spend money killing them, that's the point. But anything beyond that is just waste of resources.
I mean you must move them to the front. Ukraine must spend money killing them, that's the point. But anything beyond that is just waste of resources.
The Russian people have been told that Ukraine represents a threat to Russia and that they're fighting for the very existence of their country. Myths and memories of the Great Patriotic War are very strong.
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
Err... what he's describing isn't much different from what Russia's actually been doing for some time now, IIRC. That's combined with cannon fodder attackers being reported to be virtually unarmed in their suicide runs so that Ukrainian positions can be located and attacked with artillery.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
We know what Moscow is trying to do. It seems pretty obvious that at this point they lack the numbers and the skill to actually achieve results that way. Zeno's advance is not a path to victory.
Jimbo07
Illuminator
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For either Russia or Ukraine. That's the problem. This war is only over when Moscow says it is. In the meantime, they seem content with 300,000 casualties, 500,000, one million maybe. A half million Russian lives is a sacrifice Putin is willing to make.
Gulliver Foyle
Philosopher
What artillery? The Russians have so depleted their gins they can't shoot more than 5,000 rounds a day across the whole front, and those shells are so inaccurately fired it's simply chance if they fall within a few hundred metres of the positions they're allegedly targetting.
Plus you've got the problem that Russia's artillery is mostly fixed whereas Ukraine's is mostly mobile. Any Russian shelling gives their positioning away without them being able toevacuate the much more accurate counter barrage.
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
At last check, Russia still has a fair bit of artillery. Dramatically less in number, ammunition, and quality than they did, but it is still notable, especially when concentrated. The drone threat may well be continuing to increase and supplant the falling threat from artillery as well.
Either way, the point is more that what The Don described is pretty close to what Russia's actually been doing, rather than simply being some unrealistic downer.
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
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Why not ? It's what they've been doing with the Donbas militias for well over a year.
Edited to add...
Do you envisage a point where Putin decides that the human cost is too high ?
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Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
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I envisage a point when there's nothing left to send. It's all very well saying they potentially have millions of men if they strip the population, but they can't properly supply the ones they have in the field now. Equipment wears out and gets lost to enemy action, it has to be replaced just to maintain the current force. How long do you think even basic stuff like uniforms and boots last in the field? New men need new equipment on top of the stuff that needs replacing.
As to training in the field? That's a joke.
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