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Real İslam is only in Quran

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Having compared the bible story of Joseph in the bibles Genesis with the Quran, I can just about follow the story as described in sura 12. But as far as I can see, anyone who did not know the Genesis story could not possibly make sense of the tale of Joseph, as told in the Quran.

In the bible books of Genesis from chapter thirty seven to chapter fifty. the entire fourteen chapters are about Joseph. There are four hundred and fifty verses about the story in the bible, but in the quran sura 12 there are only one hundred and eleven verses.

The quranic version of the bible story of Joseph is a mumbling, incoherent, ill considered, and inaccurate muddle, and it does not even tell you who Joseph is. It just launches into Josephs dream at verse 4, after three verses that attempt to explain the story is being revealed in Arabic, presumably to make it available to Arabs.

The entire sura is peppered with completely unnecessary references to Allah which clutter the narrative, if you can call it a narrative. Because the bible story is clear and lucid, and rich in detail, and it has a comprehensible flow to it.


Sura 12.4 launches into a description of Josephs dream, with no explanation of who he is or how many brothers he has. What is more the dream described is the second of two dreams that are told in Genesis. But the entire point of the dream is that the eleven stars bowing down to Joseph are his eleven brothers. Genesis explains Josephs family tree so you can realize this, but the Quran says nothing about the matter. The Genesis story also says that Jacob made a coat of many colours for Joseph, and that is why his brothers were jealous of him, but the quran gives no reason or motives for Josephs brothers to hate him. Nor does it explain that Joseph has one other brother named Benjamin who had the same mother as himself, but the other ten brothers are step brothers. Nor does sura 12 explain this issue at any time, including when Joseph sends for him from Egypt.

So when Josephs brothers state at sura 12.8 When they said:" Verily Joseph and his brother are dearer to our father than we are, many though we be. Lo! our father is in plain aberration":
This makes absolutely no sense whatever to anyone that has not read the full account in Genesis.

Later in the story Joseph is put in power in Egypt, but sura 12 says nothing about him filling the granaries for seven years, it simply changes the subject to when his brothers amble into Egypt to trade, (sura 12.58) and it does not explain they are there because it is now during the seven years of famine. Then Joseph ask his brothers to send for a brother of who is a son of their father, this again makes no sense without an explanation of the family background.

How much more obvious can it be that the Quran is plagiarism, and it was taken from the Bible and other earlier sources. It is clear to me that Muhammad had Genesis read to him and sura 12 is his half remembered rehash of the story of Joseph.
 
Those who do not know the Quran continue with their ignorant comments.

In the Quran, an event is not described in a single surah. Different details of the same event are given in many suras. For example, the story of Noah is told very little in Surah Noah. But if you look at all the suras, that is, if you read the whole book, you can see all the details about the prophet Noah and Noah's flood. In the same way, all the details of all other events are in the whole Qur'an. Each surah gives some of the details, but if you read the whole book you will see all the details. Not only the events, but for example, how to Salaat, how to perform ablution, are explained in different surahs in different parts. You have to read the whole book to learn how to worship.

The false gospels/Bible are man-written books, so they are written in the style of history books. They distract you from the truth by giving you false information.

The only true holy book we have at the moment is the Qur'an.
 
The Quran is poorly written self insert fanfiction of an already godawful book series.

I do wonder if you're actually a Muslim Emre, given that Islam embraces much of the bible and argues that the primary error in it was that Jesus was not the son of god but instead simply a very important prophet. It almost feels like a parody of hardliner muslims.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
The Quran is poorly written self insert fanfiction of an already godawful book series.

I do wonder if you're actually a Muslim Emre, given that Islam embraces much of the bible and argues that the primary error in it was that Jesus was not the son of god but instead simply a very important prophet. It almost feels like a parody of hardliner muslims.
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I bear witness that there is no humour in the Koran and the Prophet of the Religion of the Crescent (the PoRC)* was the illiterate messenger of allah.

*
Followers of the PoRC refuse to acknowledge the "c" word, "christian". It's so juvenile like Crips and Bloods.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
The only true holy book we have at the moment is the Qur'an.
Click to expand...

Hey, I found another satanic verse. This one was written on a piece of bark. I've carbon-dated the bark. It's from the time of the Prophet of the Religion of the Crescent (the PoRC).
 
Ignorance because of "knowing" it is far greater than the ignorance of not knowing the Qur'an.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Emre, can you point to any piece of positive moral guidance from the Qur'an?
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The entire Qur'an is a guide to goodness and virtue. Even the verses that tell us to fight evil are positive moral guidance. But if you want examples of verses, here are a few.

Holy Quran

16:90 God orders justice and goodness and that you shall help your relatives, and He prohibits immorality and vice and transgression. He warns you that you may remember.

2:44 Do you exhort the people to do good, but forget yourselves, while you are reciting the Book? Do you not comprehend?

2:83 And We took the covenant of the Children of Israel: "You shall not serve except God, and do good to your parents, and regard the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and say kind things to the people, and hold the contact prayer, and contribute towards purification." But then you turned away, except for a few of you; you were objecting.

2:148 And to each is a direction that he will take, so you shall race towards good deeds. Wherever you may be, God will bring you all together. God is capable of all things.

2:177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of adversity and hardship and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous.

2:262 Those who spend their money in the cause of God, then they do not follow what they have spent with either insult or harm; they will have their recompense with their Lord, there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.

2:272 You are not responsible for their guidance, but it is God who will guide whoever He wishes. And whatever you spend out of goodness is for your own souls. And anything you spend should be in seeking the face of God. And whatever you spend out of goodness will be returned to you, and you will not be wronged.

3:134 The ones who spend in prosperity and hardship, and who repress anger, and who pardon the people; God loves the good doers.

11:115 And be patient, for God does not waste the reward of the good doers.

13:22 Andthose who are patient seeking the face of their Lord; and they hold the contact prayer, and they spend from what We have bestowed upon them secretly and openly, and they counter evil with good; these will have an excellent abode.

16:90 God orders justice and goodness and that you shall help your relatives, and He prohibits immorality and vice and transgression. He warns you that you may remember.

16:128 God is with those who are aware and are good doers.

23:61 These are the ones who race in doing good, and they are the first to it.

27:89 Whoever comes with a good deed will receive better than it, and from the terror of that Day they will be safe.

28:54 To these We grant twice the reward for that they have been patient. And they counter evil with good, and from Our provisions to them, they give.

28:77 "And seek with the provisions bestowed upon you by God the abode of the Hereafter, and do not forget your share in this world, and do good as God has done good to you. And do not seek corruption in the land. God does not love the corrupters."

28:84 Whoever brings forth a good deed, he will receive a better reward than it. And whoever brings forth a sin then the retribution for their sins will be to the extent of their deeds.

46:15 And We enjoined man to do good to his parents. His mother bore him with hardship, gave birth to him in hardship, and his bearing and weaning lasts thirty months. So that, when he has reached his independence, and he has reached forty years, he says: "My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do good work that pleases You. And let my progeny be righteous. I have repented to You; I am of those who have submitted."

55:60 Is there any reward for goodness except goodness?

99:7 So whoever does the weight of an atom of good will see it.

4:35 And if you fear a permanent rift between them, then send a judge from his family and a judge from her family. If they want to reconcile, then God will bring them together. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.

8:61 And if they seek peace, then you also seek it, and put your trust in God. He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.

25:63 Andthe servants of the Almighty who walk on the earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they say: "Peace."

2:25 And give good news to those who believe and do good works that they will have estates with rivers flowing beneath them. Every time they receive a provision of its fruit, they say: "This is what we have been provisioned before," and they are given its likeness. And there they will have pure mates, and in it they will abide.

2:82 And those who believe and do good works, they are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

90:17 Then he has become one of those who have believed, and exhort one another to patience, and exhort one another to kindness.

4:58 God orders you to deliver anything you have been entrusted with to its owners. And if you judge between the people, then you shall judge with justice. It is always the best that God prescribes for you. God is Hearer, Seer.

4:135 O you who believe, stand with justice as witnesses to God, even if against yourselves, or the parents or the relatives. Even if he be rich or poor, God is more worthy of them, so do not follow desire into being unjust. And if you twist or turn away, then God is Expert over what you do.

11:85 "And my people, give full in the measure and the weight equitably, and do not hold back from the people what is theirs, and do not roam the land corrupting."

38:26 O David, We have made you a successor on the earth. Therefore, you shall judge among the people with the truth, and do not follow desire, lest it diverts you from the path of God. Indeed, those who stray off the path of God will have a severe retribution for forgetting the Day of Reckoning.

49:9 And if two parties of believers battle with each other, you shall reconcile them; but if one of them aggresses against the other, then you shall fight the one aggressing until it complies with the command of God. Once it complies, then you shall reconcile the two groups with justice, and be equitable; for God loves those who are equitable.

55:9 And observe the weight with equity, and do not fall short in the balance.

60:8 God does not prohibit you from those who have not fought you because of your system, nor drove you out of your homes, that you deal kindly and equitably with them. For God loves the equitable.
 
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Emre_1974tr said:
The entire Qur'an is a guide to goodness and virtue. Even the verses that tell us to fight evil are positive moral guidance. But if you want examples of verses, here are a few.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this.
There are more than I thought, that's for sure. However, it does rather look like, much as with Christianity, that most of these commands are optional. Believers are free to pick and choose which of them to follow.
It's also telling that 'good' itself is not really defined, and can often simply be taken to mean 'do what Allah says'.
Just to take a few examples:

Emre_1974tr said:
2:177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of adversity and hardship and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous.
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Slavery was abolished in Britain in 1807.
It wasn't abolished in Iran until 1929, Turkey until 1933 and Saudi Arabia in 1962. Mauritius, under heavy pressure from the UN, didn't get round to it until 2007! Slavery is believed to continue across much of the Muslim world.
So much for that part of the Qur'an, then.

Emre_1974tr said:
16:90 God orders justice and goodness and that you shall help your relatives, and He prohibits immorality and vice and transgression. He warns you that you may remember.
Click to expand...

The problem here is that anyone can define what 'immorality and vice' are. This usually means homosexuality, and girls having boyfriends, women not wearing the veil, people dancing or listening to music etc, and far too often leads to oppression and so-called 'honour' killings.

Emre_1974tr said:
28:77 " And do not seek corruption in the land. God does not love the corrupters."
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Yeah, right.
https://www.worldeconomics.com/Indicator-Data/Corruption/Corruption-Perceptions-Index.aspx

Another 'optional extra'. :rolleyes:
Now, OK, it's not right to judge the Qur'an by Muslims, just as you can't judge the Bible by Christians, but it does seem that much of the Muslim world ignores these moral edicts.
The other problem I have with this, as I've said, is that just telling people to 'be good', without actually saying what 'good' means, it not especially helpful. It's this kind of (deliberate?) vagueness that allows so much of what is wrong in Muslim regimes and Muslim communities around the world. As a guide to a moral life, the Qur'an is clearly inadequate.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Thanks for this.
There are more than I thought, that's for sure. However, it does rather look like, much as with Christianity, that most of these commands are optional. Believe.
Click to expand...

No, if you read the whole book, it explains that goodness is not relative and it gives details of goodness.

Secondly, the Quran prohibits slavery. The verses about freeing slaves talk about freeing prisoners of war and also about paying non-Muslim slave owners to free their slaves. Because the Qur'an forbids slavery, but the non-Muslims were still owning slaves and not freeing them. The Qur'an says to pay their owners, if necessary, so that these people can also be freed. Because the owners of those slaves were not Muslims and did not listen to what the Qur'an said.

The Quran had already abolished slavery before anyone else. I have shown you this with verses in my articles. But after the death of the prophet, Muslims moved away from the Qur'an, that is Islam, and reintroduced pagan practices that were completely un-Islamic (circumcision, hijab/headscarf, witchcraft, rajm/stoning, communism, belief in holy people, owning slaves, adopting poverty, etc.)...
 
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Emre_1974tr said:
No, if you read the whole book, it explains that goodness is not relative and it gives details of goodness.

Secondly, the Quran prohibits slavery. The verses about freeing slaves talk about freeing prisoners of war and also about paying non-Muslim slave owners to free their slaves. Because the Qur'an forbids slavery, but the non-Muslims were still owning slaves and not freeing them. The Qur'an says to pay their owners, if necessary, so that these people can also be freed. Because the owners of those slaves were not Muslims and did not listen to what the Qur'an said.
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I cannot find any sura in the Qur'an that says this: can you provide a quote, please?

Emre_1974tr said:
The Quran had already abolished slavery before anyone else.
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Utterly untrue. Not only does this not say this in the Qur'an, it is also a fact that slavery is legal according to Sharia law. Moreover, there appears to be no historical reference to any Muslim nation or society abolishing slavery at the time the Qur'an was being written: again, perhaps you could explain where this is supposed to have happened. Finally, we know that the Prophet Muhammad himself owned slaves.

Emre_1974tr said:
I have shown you this with verses in my articles. But after the death of the prophet, Muslims moved away from the Qur'an, that is Islam, and reintroduced pagan practices that were completely un-Islamic (circumcision, hijab/headscarf, witchcraft, rajm/stoning, communism, belief in holy people, owning slaves, adopting poverty, etc.)...
Click to expand...

So you arer saying that, in the tiny space of time between the death of the (slave-owning) Prophet, and the beginning of Muslim-dominated societies (such as the Caliphates), slavery was abolished and then brought back?
Nonsense.
This is an interesting article about the status of slavery in Islam.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/reli... vast majority of,part of their religious law.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Those who do not know the Quran continue with their ignorant comments.

In the Quran, an event is not described in a single surah. Different details of the same event are given in many suras. For example, the story of Noah is told very little in Surah Noah. But if you look at all the suras, that is, if you read the whole book, you can see all the details about the prophet Noah and Noah's flood. In the same way, all the details of all other events are in the whole Qur'an. Each surah gives some of the details, but if you read the whole book you will see all the details. Not only the events, but for example, how to Salaat, how to perform ablution, are explained in different surahs in different parts. You have to read the whole book to learn how to worship.

The false gospels/Bible are man-written books, so they are written in the style of history books. They distract you from the truth by giving you false information.

The only true holy book we have at the moment is the Qur'an.
Click to expand...


In this way;


1- You read the whole Book and master the subjects and information described in all verses. You will always evaluate the Book in its entirety.


2- If you read a few pages of the Qur'an every day, you will benefit from its healing therapy as if you had read the whole book. Because in the 2 pages you read, you will be informed about many subjects just like the whole book, and you will go on a dizzying journey from the facts about life to philosophy, from black holes in space to science and technology, to worship.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
In this way;


1- You read the whole Book and master the subjects and information described in all verses. You will always evaluate the Book in its entirety.


2- If you read a few pages of the Qur'an every day, you will benefit from its healing therapy as if you had read the whole book. Because in the 2 pages you read, you will be informed about many subjects just like the whole book, and you will go on a dizzying journey from the facts about life to philosophy, from black holes in space to science and technology, to worship.
Click to expand...

Just a friendly reminder: If you quote yourself again just to post some more irrelevances while ignoring everyone else, I will report you for spamming. I don't want to but I will.
 
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