General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[webfusion]

Decency, morality, and humanitarian considerations are not in the lexicon of HAMAS.

Which is why their entire conglomeration of weapons is being eviscerated. Along with the men deploying them.
The media just released video of a huge detonation of a HAMAS rocket depot, my goodness, it was spectactular!
I think the fireball was visible from Tel Aviv.

 

[Hercules56]

The whole world has a precedent with a clear and irrefragable parallel between South African Afrikaans apartheid and abuse of their "brown people" and the Israeli Zionists' apartheid and abuse of their "brown people".

And the UN and THE WORLD achieved a solution for the Afrikaans' atrocity... and as a precedent and a clear irrefutable parallel... the world can have a solution for the Zionists' atrocity by using the same method.

I suggest you read about the HISTORY of how the South African solution was achieved and what were its outcomes and what is South Africa today.

That is the correct answer... none of your assumed "predictions".

Look at the South African precedent for a solution of racism and Apartheid and confining humans in Bantustans concentration camps.

And if justice still has any meaning instead of MIGHT IS RIGHT... and if decency and morality and humanitarian considerations are a primary concern instead of Getting Jesus to have a Mulligan and applying incorrectly interpreted verses from a book of fairy tales written by miserable people 2500 years ago... then the South African Model for a solution is the only SANE way to proceed.

The South African model is simply democracy. One man, one vote.

Would that satisfy you?

 

[Ziggurat]

Wrong... the article states clearly that the founders of the organization are the ones who fought against the Soviets....

And? Those individuals weren't the Taliban when they fought the Soviets. And the USA didn't create the Taliban.

read it again... you clearly did not read it carefully.

That's rich, since it contradicts what you said.

do you know what Casuistry is?

Do you know what causality is?

There's nothing unsound about noting that the Taliban never fought the Soviets. That would in fact have been impossible, since they never overlapped in time.

 

[lionking]

Just as the UN and the rest of the world FORCED the Afrikaans to dissolve their apartheid... so can they also force the Zionists to do the same for their apartheid.

Why should Israel take any notice of the UN? A body that condemns its very existence and passes resolutions calling for its destruction on a regular basis?

The UN lacks credibility in today’s world. Nations, including Australia, ignore its declarations and resolutions when it doesn’t suit their national interest. The UN is largely a joke.

 

[webfusion]

The South African model is simply democracy. One man, one vote.

Would that satisfy you?

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but in Israel, we literally discard and ignore votes for parties that don't eventually cross the electoral threshold.
If you voted for that party, your vote is wasted.
Instead of One (person) One Vote, they ended up with One (person) No Vote.

And, from a purely political standpoint, the Likud gets a decent share of Palestinian votes (or non-Jewish Israelis, or however you prefer to label Israel's varied and multicultural non-Jewish population)
https://aijac.org.au/fresh-air/54490

 

[webfusion]

Turtle Bay in NYC can expect to become besieged.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/09/nyregion/protests-israel-hamas-palestinians-nyc.html

 

[Hercules56]

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but in Israel, we literally discard and ignore votes for parties that don't eventually cross the electoral threshold.
If you voted for that party, your vote is wasted.
Instead of One (person) One Vote, they ended up with One (person) No Vote.

And, from a purely political standpoint, the Likud gets a decent share of Palestinian votes (or non-Jewish Israelis, or however you prefer to label Israel's varied and multicultural non-Jewish population)
https://aijac.org.au/fresh-air/54490

Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza don't get to vote in Israeli elections.

 

[Hercules56]

Turtle Bay in NYC can expect to become besieged.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/09/nyregion/protests-israel-hamas-palestinians-nyc.html

Good. Peaceful democracy is a good thing.

 

[webfusion]

Good. Peaceful democracy is a good thing.

It won't remain peaceful for much longer.

I'm going out to purchase a shotgun during Black Friday sales (Dick's Sporting Goods has a deal for a nice home-defense pump-action 12g. for only $187.49 )

 

[Hercules56]

It won't remain peaceful for much longer.

I'm going out to purchase a shotgun during Black Friday sales (Dick's Sporting Goods has a deal for a nice home-defense pump-action 12g. for only $187.49 )

Is that a prediction or a wish?

I hope you're familiar with the gun laws in your state. If you threaten peaceful people with a firearm you can be locked up for a long time. This isn't the movie you know.

 

[webfusion]

Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza don't get to vote in Israeli elections.

They are not voting for anything, as it happens.

By the way, why would anyone think that non-citizens 'get' to vote in Israeli elections?

 

[Hercules56]

They are not voting for anything, as it happens.

By the way, why would anyone think that non-citizens 'get' to vote in Israeli elections?

Apartheid South Africa also didn't let millions of people vote, even though they were under their control. That didn't last forever.

 

[webfusion]

Is that a prediction or a wish?

I hope you're familiar with the gun laws in your state. If you threaten peaceful people with a firearm you can be locked up for a long time. This isn't the movie you know.

Prediction based on the increasingly violent actions of 'pro-Palestine' mobs (and some individual acts) against Jews.
Having a shotgun carried openly in my state is legal. There's also the matter of the Second Amendment, where the bearing of arms is a fundamental right and cannot be infringed.

If anyone gets into any proximate altercation with me, and/or attempts to take or gain control over my weapon, they will be splattered with buckshot immediately, no warning, no "get back" (especially if they are supported by friends who try to flank me).

See: Kyle Rittenhouse

 

[webfusion]

Apartheid South Africa also didn't let millions of people vote, even though they were under their control. That didn't last forever.

Palestinians in Gaza are not under our political control. Neither are the Palestinian National Authority residents a part of our political system.

But, that's a subject for next year, or several years down the road, and maybe we'll get into it during Israel/Palestine discussion thread, part 10.

 

[Ziggurat]

Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza don't get to vote in Israeli elections.

And Mexicans don't get to vote in American elections (and vice versa). What's your point?

 

[webfusion]

And Mexicans don't get to vote in American elections (and vice versa). What's your point?

However, those in Guam and Puerto Rico do.
Puerto Rico's nearly 3.2 million residents are U.S. citizens but they aren't allowed to vote for POTUS.
(as an unincorporated territory and not a state)

Let's ask the residents of Gaza if they're OK with becoming Israeli citizens in 2024. Make it a Gaza-Strip Referendum. "Are you willing to be part of the Israeli political system, and granted citizenship, as an unincorporated territory?"
(By the way, Puerto Ricans consistently reject becoming the 51st US State when asked).

 

[Hercules56]

However, those in Guam and Puerto Rico do.
Puerto Rico's nearly 3.2 million residents are U.S. citizens but they aren't allowed to vote for POTUS.
(as an unincorporated territory and not a state)

Let's ask the residents of Gaza if they're OK with becoming Israeli citizens in 2024. Make it a Gaza-Strip Referendum. "Are you willing to be part of the Israeli political system, and granted citizenship, as an unincorporated territory?"
(By the way, Puerto Ricans consistently reject becoming the 51st US State when asked).

Yes, ask the Palestinians Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank if they want Israeli citizenship. That would be a great step in the right direction.

 

[Hercules56]

Palestinians in Gaza are not under our political control. Neither are the Palestinian National Authority residents a part of our political system.

But, that's a subject for next year, or several years down the road, and maybe we'll get into it during Israel/Palestine discussion thread, part 10.

ALL Palestinian Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank are under Israeli control. Israel controls the overall security situation and the borders. Nothing gets in or out of the West Bank without Israel saying ok. Legally they are still Occupied according to the 4thGC.

 

[Hercules56]

Prediction based on the increasingly violent actions of 'pro-Palestine' mobs (and some individual acts) against Jews.
Having a shotgun carried openly in my state is legal. There's also the matter of the Second Amendment, where the bearing of arms is a fundamental right and cannot be infringed.

If anyone gets into any proximate altercation with me, and/or attempts to take or gain control over my weapon, they will be splattered with buckshot immediately, no warning, no "get back" (especially if they are supported by friends who try to flank me).

See: Kyle Rittenhouse

Do you live in a SYG state?

 

[webfusion]

I said political control. That task officially falls upon the PNA. If they want to disband the PNA, and declare their loyalty to, and respect for Israel as citizens, and participate in developing the JewishState alongside Zionists that's something to consider, I guess.
It's pretty far fetched.

The 4thGC? The Geneva Conventions do not define occupation. Yet, the elements of an occupation can be found in Article 42 of the 1907 Hague Regulations.

Who did the Israelis take (& occupy) the territories from? Not the Palestinians.
After 1967, Israel was a non-belligerent occupier. We sought to encourage a path towards self-determination for the residents of these (previously) Jordanian & Egyptian lands.
All we got was No No No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khartoum_Resolution