General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[Hercules56]

Ah... but the victims of Nazi Germany get to invade Palestine and take it over and Ethnically Cleanse it and confine the rest in concentration camps and...

There are no concentration camps in Palestine. Your hyperbole is dishonest and absurd.

 

[Leumas]

Yes, Leumas is saying that during WW2, Jewish partisans would have been legally and morally justified in launching massacres upon German villages full of civilians.

And you are opposed to that on what grounds exactly??? Haven't the allies done EXACTLY that all over Germany and Japan and Italy and North Africa???

 

[Hercules56]

It is not ok for Zionists to take back THEIR ANCESTRAL lands and houses in Europe from which they were very recently and within many living Zionists today... but it is ok to take the ancestral lands and houses of the Palestinians???

Do you believe it is morally and legally just for Jews to murder Poles, Russians, Germans, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenians, Serbians, Austrians, Hungarians, than live in homes that used to be theirs?

 

[JoeMorgue]

It is not ok for Zionists to take back THEIR ANCESTRAL lands and houses in Europe from which they were very recently and within many living Zionists today... but it is ok to take the ancestral lands and houses of the Palestinians???

Again it's not my fault you've swallowed Muslim propaganda about a "Sacred Palestinian Homeland" that nobody gave a crap about until they put Jews on it.

If you honestly believe that this is about where some group of people called the "Palestinians" who are 100% indistinguishable in language, race, ethnicity, and culture from the people who live in Muslim mono-states around Israel I don't know what to tell you.

 

[webfusion]

*snip crazy Zionists...*
Let me ask you a question...

If you enter a room and observe A punching B in the face.... do you then conclude that A is the aggressor?
​

Not a hypothetical, let's look to the murderous incident Nov 5th in Ventura county, California.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/evidence-arrest-jewish-protester-death-police/story?id=104777340

Mr. Kessler was struck in the face by a bullhorn (megaphone). He is "B"
Mr Alnaji struck him. He is "A"

Without video of the actual interaction, what can we conclude?

 

[Hercules56]

And you are opposed to that on what grounds exactly??? Haven't the allies done EXACTLY that all over Germany and Japan and Italy and North Africa???

I don't believe in murdering civilians. Its terribly immoral and unjust.

 

[Leumas]

There are no concentration camps in Palestine.

Yes there is... your denial is what is

... hyperbole is dishonest and absurd.

 

[Hercules56]

Yes there is... your denial is what is

Concentration camps don't have malls, shopping centers, fancy hotels and pools. And a giant beach.

 

[webfusion]

Wrong. If the UN and the international community did not recognize Israel's existence in 1949 then they would not have been a state, just an illegal entity.

In 1949, the UN accepted Israel as a member. On May 11, 1949 the UN General Assembly votes 37 to 12, with 9 abstentions, to admit Israel as a member state, making her the 59th member of the United Nations.

You really need to brush up on how the UN operates. (or fails to operate, YMMV)

 

[Leumas]

Not a hypothetical, let's look to the murderous incident ....

of ... well.... throughout the last two centuries... Imperialist Colonialists... ******* indigenous peoples in FIVE CONTINENTS...

...
Without video of the actual interaction, what can we conclude?

But we also have video and 8mm films and news reals and archives and HISTORY GALORE... that none of you would even DARE to read... ever.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Okay and? Even if this kind of absurd "X people have been treated bad ergo they get to commit violence NOW" argument wasn't just a complete load of sawdust and manure it applies to the Jews more.

You ain't gonna win a "We've historically been treated bad" dick waving contest with the Jews.

Again unless you are incapable of looking at anything outside of the context of Liberal Victim Ranking, but if that's not my problem to solve.

 

[webfusion]

Concentration camps don't have malls, shopping centers, fancy hotels and pools. And a giant beach.

Theresienstadt was cynically described as a "spa town" where elderly German Jews could "retire" in safety.
Writers, professors, musicians, and actors gave lectures, concerts, and theater performances.

While I'm absolutely certain that Gaza does not rise anywhere into the universe of Concentration Camps, it can be said that the Gaza Strip is in need of some serious re-thinking of what it represents and what the future holds for Gazans. That exact conversation is happening now, thankfully.
However, using Nazi terminology is not of any value to the conversation, and leads nowhere.

 

[webfusion]

of ... well.... throughout the last two centuries... Imperialist Colonialists... ******* indigenous peoples in FIVE CONTINENTS...
But we also have video and 8mm films and news reels and archives and HISTORY GALORE... that none of you would even DARE to read... ever.

I asked about a specific and well-known current event. Why are you sidestepping my direct question and going off about two centuries of history? Mr. Kessler was struck, and died. You asked a hypothetical, and I narrowed it down to reality. Aren't you interested in reality? C'mon, we have A and B.
Do you conclude that A is the aggressor?

 

[JoeMorgue]

So to sum up:

A member of the IDF kills a Muslim: We talk about that.
A member of Hamas kills a Jew: "Let's talk about the evils of Western colonialism and list every bad thing that's ever happened to a Muslim ever."

 

[Leumas]

....
This is where Liberal White Guilt about Colonialism breaks down because nobody would get to live anywhere if it was really a problem that needed to be solved....

Except in Israel where INDIANS and Africans and Russians and Ukrainians and Germans and Polish etc. can THUMP the poppycock of the TORAH as a title deed from an imaginary sky daddy of a mythical peripatetic Sumerian pimp.

With the "Liberal White Guilt" aiding and abetting and arming and giving annually BILLION$$$ and hoodwinking the crimes going on there.... to alleviate their "Liberal White Guilt"... while decrying the Palestinians for resisting present and clear CRIMES against them as "Liberal White Guilt" pulling.... wow!!!

 

[JoeMorgue]

Except in Israel where INDIANS and Africans and Russians and Ukrainians and Germans and Polish etc. can THUMP the poppycock of the TORAH as a title deed from an imaginary sky daddy of a mythical peripatetic Sumerian pimp.

With the "Liberal White Guilt" aiding and abetting and arming and giving annually BILLION$$$ and hoodwinking the crimes going on there.... to alleviate their "Liberal White Guilt"... while decrying the Palestinians for resisting present and clear CRIMES against them as "Liberal White Guilt" pulling.... wow!!!

For someone with "strawman" on their word of the day calendar you are responding to what people are actually saying less and less and just doing more and more unhinged ranting with each post.

I halfway expect a pidgin English routine to start up.

 

[Leumas]

So to sum up:

A member of the IDF kills a Muslim: We talk about that.
A member of Hamas kills a Jew: "Let's talk about the evils of Western colonialism and list every bad thing that's ever happened to a Muslim ever."

No your summation is a risible and obvious strawman....

I asked you a question which you did not answer... it got answered by another guy with giving an example of a recent crime he is harping on about... which ahs nothing to do with the question and is arrantly irrelevant.

And now instead of answering the question you are strawmanning.

And because Zionists equally as crazy went to their lands from an equally crazy Europe and have been ethnically cleansing them since the 1900s too.

Have you read the cited links... I bet you have not...

Let me ask you a question...

If you enter a room and observe A punching B in the face.... do you then conclude that A is the aggressor?
​

 

[Planigale]

You really should not talk about international law until you expect the Palestinian Arabs to abide by it. Which Hamas and Islamic jihad and Hezbollah refuse to do.

But neither does Israel. And Likud will not recognise the right of the Palestinians to a independent state and are committed to the illegal settlement of the West Bank.

Likud is not even the most extreme member of the Israeli government.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I asked you a question which you did not answer.

And you've been asked a dozen questions and haven't answers. Deal with it.

 

[webfusion]

Let me ask you a question...

If you enter a room and observe A punching B in the face.... do you then conclude that A is the aggressor?

The Forum was posed a hypothetical, and I responded by presenting a real-world actual example (so far, no crime has been charged) that we can look at and talk about. It's quite unfortunate to realize that Leumas is not interested in an actual discussion.

Well, I tried.