Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

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Vixen said:
This was misleading as it was in quotation marks as a verbatim comment.
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Yes, your continued reliance on unreliable sources that you refuse to vet is why I maintain that armchair detectives are worse than useless.

But lets us not miss the point that the car park floor collapsed very quickly, given how new the building was, and built to withstand the weight of modern cars. The heat must have been extraordinarily intense, of an all together higher magnitude than the Liverpool one.
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No, you don't get to assume you know what you're talking about.
 
Vixen said:
Intensity of heat.
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"Intensity of heat" is a topic you assured us would resolve in your favor if we "did the maths." I'm still waiting for you to do the heat transfer computations to prove your point. Until you do, all we have is "Because Vixen says so," which is an iron-clad guarantee of error.
 
Vixen said:
I took the lady's words at face value
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.... and galloped off in all directions without bothering to absorb the context, which was that these passengers were witnessing this while being taken off their grounded flight after spending a couple of hours on the tarmac.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
They did not pronounce the fire uncontrollable.

They declared a major incident. Declaring a major incident is not fire brigade speak for "We give up. Run away".
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On the contrary, it called for help from almost every fire team in the surrounding counties plus London Fire Brigade. Over a hundred firemen tackling the blaze all night long.
 
Vixen said:
On the contrary, it called for help from almost every fire team in the surrounding counties plus London Fire Brigade. Over a hundred firemen tackling the blaze all night long.
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Which is the opposite of "We give up. Run Away", isn't it?
 
JayUtah said:
"Intensity of heat" is a topic you assured us would resolve in your favor if we "did the maths." I'm still waiting for you to do the heat transfer computations to prove your point. Until you do, all we have is "Because Vixen says so," which is an iron-clad guarantee of error.
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A piece of red hot shrapnel from a burning self-oxygenating lithium-ion battery pierces the plastic diesel fuel tank. Vapours ignite within the tank resulting in a fireball. The rest is history.
 
Vixen said:
Right. My comment was within a very specific context, which was to do with obtaining the same deformations in a piece of steel <snip>
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So you didn't claim that welding does not involve melting steel or that welding machines can't melt steel?

Because you also said the following:
Vixen said:
I don't accept that using a welding kit in your living room would be able to heat steel up to 700°.
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So how does a welding kit work if it can't even raise the temperature of steel to within several hundred degrees of its melting point? :confused:
 
Vixen said:
A piece of red hot shrapnel from a burning self-oxygenating lithium-ion battery pierces the plastic diesel fuel tank. Vapours ignite within the tank resulting in a fireball. The rest is history.
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No, that's not "intensity of heat," nor have you provided the mathematical analysis you claim will prove your point. We have discussed many topics here including how fires spread among combustibles, how the architecture of buildings contribute to the stoichiometrics of combustion, and what heat-transfer factors affect Class B combustible fuel loads.

You have expressed nothing but ignorance and disdain for any of those topics. Explain now, please, why you should be taken at all seriously.
 
Vixen said:
A piece of red hot shrapnel from a burning self-oxygenating lithium-ion battery pierces the plastic diesel fuel tank. Vapours ignite within the tank resulting in a fireball. The rest is history.
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We're talking about the Luton car park fire, not your fantasies.

You do know that the course of a fire is not determined by what started it, but rather by the conditions and available fuel in the area?
 
Vixen said:
But let us not miss the point that the car park floor collapsed very quickly, given how new the building was, and built to withstand the weight of modern cars. The heat must have been extraordinarily intense, of an all together higher magnitude than the Liverpool one.
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You're making up a little story again.

You don't know how long the fire rating requirement was, and you don't know if the new car park's fire resistance was designed down to the absolute minimum required to meet the spec at the least cost.

You're extrapolating from guesses.
 
Vixen said:
A piece of red hot shrapnel from a burning self-oxygenating lithium-ion battery pierces the plastic diesel fuel tank. Vapours ignite within the tank resulting in a fireball. The rest is history This post is imaginary.
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FTFY.
 
Vixen said:
A piece of red hot shrapnel from a burning self-oxygenating lithium-ion battery pierces the plastic diesel fuel tank. Vapours ignite within the tank resulting in a fireball. The rest is history.
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It was a diesel car. It has been confirmed by the fire service.

Or should we doubt their word?

If you think they are telling a lie about that, how do you know they are telling the truth about being there in 8 minutes?
 
Vixen said:
A piece of red hot shrapnel from a burning self-oxygenating lithium-ion battery pierces the plastic diesel fuel tank. Vapours ignite within the tank resulting in a fireball. The rest is history.
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I'm not familiar with Range Rover layout but it's not typical for a fuel tank to dangle below a car's cabin floor level. They tend to be raised up above the floor pan level, just behind the cabin. And you already told us I think that the hybrid battery is placed at the front, on the passenger side, and presumably inside the engine compartment since this hybrid version is built from what is otherwise a normal Range Rover body.

So, would that imaginary shrapnel not have to pierce the steel floor pan, soundproofing wadding and carpet, pass through the cabin at low level, pierce the carpet, padding and steel floor pan again and then enter the diesel tank?

If that's what lithium car fires are like can you show us videos of these terrifying fragmentation devices in action? If a burning EV typically fires burning projectiles which can penetrate multiple layers of steel, I think we need to know.
 


Lithium-ion battery burn test above. No signs of red-hot shrapnel... the PM's wife must've gotten to them.

Batteries burring are actually less explosive than Petrol or Diesel. why? Because I said so Vixen. My claims are equal to yours... I mean I'm also correct but whatever.
 
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