Luton Airport Car Park Fire

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welshdean said:
Amazing! The 'epicentre' of the fire looks to be coming from just right of centre of the engine bay (left from the perspective shown), which just happens to be exactly where the fuel lines run and enter the engine block on this particular car.
I wonder, is that a coincidence Vixen?
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Those would be the battery fuel lines, right? Carrying all the battery fuel? And they have to go along that side to pass around the grassy knoll.
 
Vixen said:
Exactly. What kind of heat intensity would give rise to that sort of inferno?
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A car fire. Its intensity nicely illustrated by a couple of helpful videos.

A car fire, which set fire to another car, which set fire to another car... We all know this. The sole point of contention is what type of car caught fire first and everyone except you knows the answer. Once the car was well alight, it ceased to matter what type of fuel it used.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
What concerned me was not the fire brigade's failure to comprehend the different circumstances.
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Are you still not grokking?

At the peak of the blaze, there were 15 Fire and Rescue Service pumps, three aerial appliances and over 100 firefighters on scene. Fire colleagues from Buckinghamshire, Cambridgeshire, Hertfordshire, Northamptonshire and the London Fire Brigade along with officers from the Bedfordshire Police and staff of the East of England Ambulance Service afforded their support.
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BAFSA

Luton Airport Car Park is not some 1960's car park designed for Hillman Imps and Ford Capris and Corsairs, this was built in 2019* and thus quite likely had ample room for today's modern vehicle sizes**.

*No sprinklers, though, contrary to the recommendations of the 2019 Merseyside report into the Liverpool ECHO car park fire.

**As an aside, my nearest city's park areas, such as the town bus station and train stations have the bare minimum parameters to get in and out of one's car, and you have to clutch the door to stop the wind blowing it into the side of a nearby vehicle. The local supermarkets car parks OTOH have plenty of space around the vehicle to ensure comfortable parking for the flashiest of EV monsters and trucks.
 
Carrot Flower King said:
Yeahbut, do dilithium crystals catch fire if they crack? And can you make goal posts out of them?
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You know they should just beam fire engines to the fires. It would be so much quicker. In fact they could just beam the contents of a pond directly onto the fire. Why didn't they think of that?
 
Jack by the hedge said:
A car fire. Its intensity nicely illustrated by a couple of helpful videos.

A car fire, which set fire to another car, which set fire to another car... We all know this. The sole point of contention is what type of car caught fire first and everyone except you knows the answer. Once the car was well alight, it ceased to matter what type of fuel it used.
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For crying out loud the Fire Brigade was there pronto. What was the problem?

Your starter for ten: it begins with L. <sfx Jim Carey contortions> 'Li-li-li-li - blabber, blabber' <sfx ducks under the desk rather than say it.>

Say it out loud!


You can do it.
 
Vixen said:
Are you still not grokking?
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I can read that the fire brigade require access to a particular percentage of the perimeter of a building, depending on its size. It doesn't mention a requirement to be able to park on the roof above a fire. This hints to me that any grokking failure does not lie with the fire brigade but with someone else.
 
Vixen said:
You re missing the point the fire brigade were there within minutes. Within half an houu they had to withdraw as the whole place was a raging inferno.

Have a look at this video at about 6:57 to get some idea of the sheer intensity of a lithium battery fire, which only needs some kind of pressure or internal fault to set it off.



https://youtu.be/t1j9TUV5coc?si=yhoi6xkgLrOcNlGB

This might help inform you why firefighters ended up being hospitalised with smoke inhalation within minutes and the entire fire brigade needing to withdraw to tackle the raging inferno from outside the building.

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53275430148_51cb8f53fd_c.jpg[/qimg]JLR by Username Vixen, on Flickr

At this stage, subject to verification, the Luton fire is consistent with a diesel hybrid fire, emanating from the lithium battery.
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It has been confirmed by the fire service that it was a diesel car
 
Vixen said:
... this was built in 2019* and thus quite likely had ample room for today's modern vehicle sizes**.

*No sprinklers, though, contrary to the recommendations of the 2019 Merseyside report into the Liverpool ECHO car park fire.
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So you're guessing this was a well-designed modern car park despite the one feature we know about being a tragically poor design choice.
 
Vixen said:
Drawing from the Liverpool ECHO car park fire report by Merseyside Fire Brigade, actually being parked on a ramp is not good:

page 19


So, the Luton car, if the image is authentic (and this has not been verified), was parked at right angles to the parking bays on a ramp arriving at Level 3, where it is already on fire towards the front of the vehicle. The Fire Brigade would appear to consider such a 'parking spot' to be a factor in fire spread.


With flames shooting out to the sides low down and at the high temperatures associated with a lithium fire, then this would soon be uncontainable despite all best efforts.


Would sprinklers have helped? Almost certainly, if only to slow the spread down in other parts of the car park and other levels. Fire hates water.
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It was a diesel car that started the fire, it's been confirmed by the fire service

Don't 'sprinkle' water on an oil fire. You either completely overwhelm it with massive amounts of water or use something more suitable like foam or powder.
 
Vixen said:
Are you still not grokking?

BAFSA

Luton Airport Car Park is not some 1960's car park designed for Hillman Imps and Ford Capris and Corsairs, this was built in 2019* and thus quite likely had ample room for today's modern vehicle sizes**.

*No sprinklers, though, contrary to the recommendations of the 2019 Merseyside report into the Liverpool ECHO car park fire.

**As an aside, my nearest city's park areas, such as the town bus station and train stations have the bare minimum parameters to get in and out of one's car, and you have to clutch the door to stop the wind blowing it into the side of a nearby vehicle. The local supermarkets car parks OTOH have plenty of space around the vehicle to ensure comfortable parking for the flashiest of EV monsters and trucks.
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Not round here they don't
 
Hang on, was it dilithium crystals that were being smuggled on the fire engines?
 
Andy_Ross said:
It was a diesel car that started the fire, it's been confirmed by the fire service

Don't 'sprinkle' water on an oil fire. You either completely overwhelm it with massive amounts of water or use something more suitable like foam or powder.
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Vixen was actually correct on this very rare occasion. The primary purpose of sprinklers in a building is actually not to extinguish a fire but to contain it to a small area until it can be extinguished by fire fighters. Extinguishment is a frequent bonus. The National Fire Protection Assn has copious amounts of data proving that properly designed and installed fire sprinklers are very effective at minimizing fire damage spread for all types of fires, including oil.
 
Steve said:
Vixen was actually correct on this very rare occasion. The primary purpose of sprinklers in a building is actually not to extinguish a fire but to contain it to a small area until it can be extinguished by fire fighters. Extinguishment is a frequent bonus. The National Fire Protection Assn has copious amounts of data proving that properly designed and installed fire sprinklers are very effective at minimizing fire damage spread for all types of fires, including oil.
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My firefighting training was in the navy, it colours how I think about these things. My instinct tells me not to put water on already burning oil unless it's an overwhelming quantity.
I suppose sprinklers before a fire gets established is a different matter.
 
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