Luton Airport Car Park Fire

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Yes, I believe a plastic fuel tank can be heated to the point of rupture in ten minutes of sustained proximal combustion from a mixture of Class A and B combustibles.

By the time the fire is extinguished, you can see that all of the plastics have melted and burned in this X5, including the front valance, fenders, hood, various covers over the engine, the induction system, the valve cover...

Oops! Forgot the link.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4IObb6bGrGw
 
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By the time the fire is extinguished, you can see that all of the plastics have melted and burned in this X5, including the front valance, fenders, hood, various covers over the engine, the induction system, the valve cover...

While much of the fuel system in the engine compartment uses metal pipes and fittings, the injectors themselves have molded plastic bodies and provide an option to thermally compromise the fuel system. The seal between the injectors and the fuel rail will fail at high temperature.
 
Doesn't exclude a hybrid lithium-ion battery.

How long do you think it takes for a plastic tank to melt? Do you really believe that will happen in ten minutes?

And yet we know for certain that the fire spread extremely quickly from one conventional car to another, so it's hard to see how this argument from incredulity helps make your point.
 
What maths do you propose doing? Seriously.

Maths exist for this problem, but it's unlikely Vixen knows about them so she's shifting the burden of proof. She suggests that if we "do the maths," it will prove her point. But we have to do the maths—she's exempt and just gets to beg the question.

Consider the major plastic parts of the cars in those car fire videos you're carefully avoiding polluting your eyes with. Those parts are reduced to burning puddles in very short order.

While the maths exist, they're advanced. Therefore the question is actually answered easier and more convincingly via controlled empirical study. However, if maths is what Vixen considers dispositive, she's welcome to provide those that she thinks proves her point.

Do you imagine a fuel tank is immune to that because the fire needs to heat the tank and the fuel inside before it will fail? Think again. Consider how much of the tank wall is not in contact with fuel. The space above the fuel and the filler neck are not cooled by fuel inside and will melt and burn like other plastics. Once the tank is breached, the fuel will ignite in short order.

Funny you mention that because most vehicles that burn a liquid hydrocarbon need to have vented fuel caps to prevent the pressure from building up inside. Certainly a fire will heat up both the tank and its contents, and those heated contents will vent vaporized fuel at an much higher rate than normal use, even sitting in an outdoor car park in Dubai in summer.

Keep in mind that just with any other load- or pressure-bearing item, you don't have to fail the structural material completely in order for the item to fail. You just have to weaken it to a critical point. The polymer in a fuel tank merely has to soften to the point where either the partially-vented pressure in the tank or the weight of the fuel fails some part of the tank or its fittings. The problem is not how much heat it takes to reduce the fuel tank to a puddle of liquid, but how much it takes to weaken to to the point of structural failure from other loads.

I humbly suggest vixen won't "do the maths" herself because she's not actually able to do heat transfer computations, and as per usual assumed because she can't no one can.

I can assert with absolutely no fear of contradiction that Vixen cannot do the heat-transfer computations that she insinuates would prove her believe regarding fuel tanks. I can certainly do them, but they are quite extensive and in this case would require modeling all the parameters we can only guess at. Not all fires are created equal, and the inquality among them requires an analytical approach that covers all the bases. That takes weeks. This is also why we perform qualifications on normalized heat profiles and caution people not to take the results literally.

Not everyone is on the same level as you vixen, some people simply know more and understand better. You're not the teacher and you're certainly not the smartest person in the room. Your fragile ego statements that you're six steps ahead show just how upset you are getting about people pointing out that you're a failure though.

Pretty much.
 
Doesn't exclude a hybrid lithium-ion battery.

How long do you think it takes for a plastic tank to melt? Do you really believe that will happen in ten minutes?

https://qr.ae/pKYRCH

Do the maths.

The video of the car excludes it being Lithium Ion, not a battery fire.

I have seen a diesel tank melt from burning diesel in less than 2 on a John deere tractor, and the tractor tank was thicker than any car tank.
 
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Look, we know the fire brigade disowned the use of polystyrene ceiling tiles (remember those)....


As a wise man once said: "I do not think that word means what you think it means."

...because of how alarmingly rapidly they caught fire. Yes, highly inflammable because of what they were attached to....


What? The flammability of polystyrene ceiling tiles has exactly **** all to do with what they are attatched to.

...How does a fire from a car parked in a drive way separate from the parking bays, leap to the cars in the parking bays and crash blazing to the floor below? We know what happened at Liverpool...[ever increasingly irrelevant drivel snipped]


You have no idea how fires work. It goes beyond 'hot air rises', which you should know, as a 'scientist'.
 
Yeah, some of those lend themselves nicely to making up some Cockney Rhyming Slang -

<snip coarse language>[/i]

[Performative pearl-clutching snipped]


That's not coarse language, it's just good old Plain English. Credit to GlennB for including us plebs in the conversation.

ETA: I would refer you to a rather well-known court case -

Perhaps the best-known use of the term is in the title of the 1977 punk rock album Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols. Testimony in a resulting prosecution over the term demonstrated that in Old English, the word referred to a priest, and could also be used to mean "nonsense". Defence barrister John Mortimer QC and Virgin Records won the case: the court ruled that the word was not obscene.
wikipedia

Also note that 'bollocks' is not auto-censored here, whereas '****' (the 'f-bomb') is, so they are not equivalent, at least here.
 
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Doesn't exclude a hybrid lithium-ion battery.
You're lying again. No Li battery, just diesel.

How long do you think it takes for a plastic tank to melt? Do you really believe that will happen in ten minutes?
The relevent standard, UN Regulation 34 annex 5, chapter 5 (often referred to as the RISE tests after the Swedish body who usually performs many of the actual tests) requires a tank to resist fire for two minutes.
 
I'm in the office right now,so the options are limited.......... :D

You say that, but in my office bod days I once had to pick a handcuff lock with a paperclip to release our company secretary who was trapped within a revolving door. It's an anecdote sadly more interesting in summary than in detail.
 
You say that, but in my office bod days I once had to pick a handcuff lock with a paperclip to release our company secretary who was trapped within a revolving door. It's an anecdote sadly more interesting in summary than in detail.
Many years ago T, my SO#1 (then just SO) was approached by one of her students (she was, and is, an academic physicist) with whom she was friendly. Said student had another, male, student, cuffed to the bed in her on-campus room, but one of the cheap handcuffs had a broken spring....
Ooops.

After freeing the young man, T suggested a better source for their toys.
Luckily this was before ubiquitous camera phones.
 
Many years ago T, my SO#1 (then just SO) was approached by one of her students (she was, and is, an academic physicist) with whom she was friendly. Said student had another, male, student, cuffed to the bed in her on-campus room, but one of the cheap handcuffs had a broken spring....
Ooops.

After freeing the young man, T suggested a better source for their toys.
Luckily this was before ubiquitous camera phones.

So how did they dispose of his body?

Had to ask before the inevitable split to AHH. Even quality handcuffs won't prevent the relocation of these posts.
 
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