Luton Airport Car Park Fire

[P.J. Denyer]

How can you be sure?

D. Kruger GmBh told her.

 

[catsmate]

Maybe for some makes of cars but have you seen the size and weights for some US coupes?

ETA: classic cars are very popular in Finland. If you go to Turku city centre on a spring or summer weekend you can see any number just cruising around.

https://www.instagram.com/old.cars.finland/

What has this go to do with a fire Luton? Other than an attempt to distract from your lies and evasions.

 

[catsmate]

No, it hasn't been confirmed. It is 'believed to be a diesel...at this stage...subject to verification'.

No amount of plain english speak for the plebs changes that perspective.

Do you really not understand what Andrew Hopkinson said in his one and only press release?

Your'e lying again.

 

[catsmate]

I am not entirely convinced by the argument that car park fires in diesels were less frequent in the old days because cars were smaller and used fewer plastics.

Bollocks. Diesel cars were far less common in the 1960s in the UK.

Plastics whilst noxious aren't particularly flammable. For a plastic petrol tank to melt it would need to get to the relevant temperature first. Would that be within ten minutes? <shrug>

Absolute bollocks.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Plastics whilst noxious aren't particularly flammable.

Bull. ****.

For a plastic petrol tank to melt it would need to get to the relevant temperature first. Would that be within ten minutes? <shrug>

Take a look at this video and ask that question again.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4IObb6bGrGw&pp=ygUIY2FyIGZpcmU=

 

[Foster Zygote]

A modern car's chassis is made of carbon steel. An EV car's chassis is made of carbon fibre or alloys...

There you go being mistaken again.

Link

Aside from the small amount of aluminum, the vehicle [Tesla Model 3] uses ultra-high strength steel for the frame (which will prove helpful in rollover accidents) and high-strength steel for the underbody area where the battery is housed. A milder steel is used in areas that need the ability to crumple or absorb impacts.

 

[GlennB]

Bollocks. Diesel cars were far less common in the 1960s in the UK.

Absolute bollocks.

I wonder if there's a collective noun for bollocks? If not, there should be.

Suggestions welcome.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I wonder if there's a collective noun for bollocks? If not, there should be.

Suggestions welcome.

A sack?

 

[theprestige]

It is rare that I misunderstand anything.

That's even worse. Way worse.

 

[GlennB]

A sack?

Yeah, that works

 

[Steve]

That's even worse. Way worse.

It is a textbook Dunning Kruger statement.

 

[ohms]

I am not entirely convinced by the argument that car park fires in diesels were less frequent in the old days because cars were smaller and used fewer plastics.

Plastics whilst noxious aren't particularly flammable. For a plastic petrol tank to melt it would need to get to the relevant temperature first. Would that be within ten minutes? <shrug>

Per the Kings Dock Fire report which you are so fond of quoting:

Running fuel fires, due to failure of plastic fuel tanks, in early stages of vehicle fires can be expected. It is estimated 85% of European vehicles have plastic fuel tanks.

Also:

For two minutes, the tank, fixed as on the vehicle, must be exposed to flame. There must be no leakage of fuel from the tank” (The United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) Regulation 34, Annex 5, paragraph 5.1)

The regulations stipulate that, in case of fire, fuel tanks need to survive intact for two minutes.

 

[JayUtah]

I am not entirely convinced by the argument that car park fires in diesels were less frequent in the old days because cars were smaller and used fewer plastics.

I am. Because one of the things we learned from 9/11 is that the physical arrangement of the combustible load—especially density—has a profound effect on the nature of a fire.

Plastics whilst noxious aren't particularly flammable.

Wrong.

 

[JayUtah]

It is rare that I misunderstand anything.

FTFY

 

[Vixen]

Neither of those things sounds like the building collapsing. Do you know when the building failed? Do you know for how long it was rated to withstand a fire?

We will have to wait for the Bedfordshire Fire Brigade report into Luton. Sometime in 2024, hopefully.

 

[catsmate]

I wonder if there's a collective noun for bollocks? If not, there should be.

Suggestions welcome.

Dangle?
Druve? (Drove being the collective for bullocks)
Row? (Used for the more spherical balls)
Clutch? (or similar)
Bowl (Used for avocados)

 

[Vixen]

Notwithstanding the seemingly made-up concept of 'officially out of control', how does the time taken to reach your threshold of severity define how intense the fire became? I venture to suggest it doesn't.

Liverpool car park fire:

Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service said the blaze at King's Dock - next to the Liverpool Echo Arena - was one of the worst it had ever dealt with.

BBC 1.1 2019

Two hours before evacuation of fire personnel.

Luton car park fire:

Russell Taylor, 41, an account director, saw the flames after flying in to Luton from Edinburgh.

He told the PA news agency: "There were a couple of fire engines with a car ablaze on the upper floor of the car park at just after 21:00

"A few minutes later most of the upper floor was alight, car alarms were going off with loud explosions from cars going up in flames."

BBC

First 999 call 20:47, 'within minutes' circa 21:00 entire third floor alight. TEN MINUTES!!! according to above independent eye witness.

Hopkinson confirmed to BBC a 'major incident' was declared at 21:38 and 100 firefighters having to fight the blaze from the outside of the building. Liverpool firefighters managed to keep it up from the car park stairwells for nigh on two hours before admitting defeat.

 

[GlennB]

Dangle?
Druve? (Drove being the collective for bullocks)
Row? (Used for the more spherical balls)
Clutch? (or similar)
Bowl (Used for avocados)

Yeah, some of those lend themselves nicely to making up some Cockney Rhyming Slang -

Clutch ... hutch ... rabbit hutch ... rabbit. A rabbit of bollocks.

Bowl ... coal ... sack of coal ... sack. A sack of bollocks.

Kemo sabe?

 

[Vixen]

Car park fires in diesels were uncommon in the old days because diesel cars were uncommon. We already covered that. Try to remember.

Have you looked at any of those modern car fire videos yet? Do you imagine any plastic parts of those cars survived intact for ten minutes when the vehicles are almost entirely consumed by fire in half that time? Don't be silly.

Look, we know the fire brigade disowned the use of polystyrene ceiling tiles (remember those) because of how alarmingly rapidly they caught fire. Yes, highly inflammable because of what they were attached to. How does a fire from a car parked in a drive way separate from the parking bays, leap to the cars in the parking bays and crash blazing to the floor below? We know what happened at Liverpool, a burning fuel line. But the blaze there spread upwards first. That was the point the fire fighters withdrew. They had ample time to evacuate the horses and dogs from the lower level.

If petrol car fires were uncommon in t'days of yore, then diesel cars would be even less so, given petrol is far more volatile than diesel.

So a diesel car burnt down Luton Airport car park within half an hour of setting the entire floor ablaze in ten minutes, with a flaming car plunging through the concrete floor.

 

[Vixen]

I quote again the post that you characterize as containing "low blows":

You're simply demonstrating that you feel personally insulted simply by having your understanding of the subjects about which you argue so vociferously even questioned. By continuing to insist that anything in the above quotation is even remotely related to an ad hominem attack, or a "low blow", you're just showing that you are pathologically incapable of admitting error, and that when you can't respond with a cogent defense you resort to playing the victim.


Your threads are overflowing with your misunderstanding.

You thought that the tail lights being on indicated that the engine was running. This is false. You didn't realize that if the engine was running, that made the risk of the fire spreading even greater, because fuel was still being pumped to the engine.

You clearly have no concept of how violently a hydrocarbon fueled vehicle can burn, or at least you didn't until you were shown videos of such fires, which you have ignored.

You've gone from claiming that the fire destroyed the building within ten minutes, to claiming that it was declared a major fire after almost an hour.

You thought diesel fuel needed a an oily rag and a leaf blower to ignite, but I showed you a video of diesel being ignited with a wooden match.

You thought that the open structure of the garage should have cleared away all the smoke, but didn't realize that it would also help feed oxygen to the fire.

The list could stretch on and on...

I understood all of that perfectly thanks. Nice try at more strawmen.

And no, I am still not sobbing into my handkerchief.

ETA: as for your last point you are now talking cross purposes because we were discussing building regulations to do with fire spreading not the amount of smoke, a new topic you have just introduced.