Luton Airport Car Park Fire

[Jack by the hedge]

It is 'thought' to be a Range Rover.

Luton airport is 'thought' to have had a car park fire. Might be photoshop. Who knows who's in on it? What about the army of anti-EV 'wot I reckon' experts on social media, for example? Have they all got alibis?

 

[Vixen]

Probably not. See, for example, the Estonia threads, in which Vixen repeatedly claimed that another poster had described the illegal deportation of two Egyptians from Sweden as 'just an ordinary deportation', despite his having actually referred to it as "against Sweden's own rules", "illegal", "reprehensible and illegal", and "a totally different crime, that of enforced deportation".

You mean the poster who thought this was the same as that and that the difference was just a tiny one, a case of a little mistake, whoops? That poster?

 

[zooterkin]

I think you'll find those are zooterkin's words.

I see you're as accurate as ever.

 

[Vixen]

Officials have not withheld the information about the engine type of the vehicle that caught fire. They're either giving correct information about that, or they're giving incorrect information. "Withholding information" is no longer an option.

Do you reject the hypothesis that authorities are giving incorrect information about the engine type?

Point me to where 'the authorities' point to the make and model of the car in question, you know, like they did immediately at Liverpool and Cork.

 

[zooterkin]

Show me a second press release in his own words in full stating model and make of car. (Not some secondary source sub-edited précis.)

I linked to the official Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service web site, not a secondary source. Do get a grip.

 

[Vixen]

Doing science to meet educational benchmarks isn't the same as being a scientist. Science is a specific body of practice. Being a scientist means embracing and acting according to that body of practice, either professionally, recreationally, or both. Whatever science Vixen may have studied in school, whatever science she may have done to meet certain educational benchmarks, Vixen manifestly does not practice science here at ISF. Nor does she seem to have embraced the scientific body of practice in her life generally.

Do you have any evidence to back up your jibe or is it just a cheap shot to make yourself feel better?

 

[zooterkin]

Point me to where 'the authorities' point to the make and model of the car in question, you know, like they did immediately at Liverpool and Cork.

Bring those goalposts back!

Please refresh your memory of the OP (that you wrote). The issue is what fuel the car used, not the make and model. It was a diesel.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen has lived a large number of interesting lives.

I hope you are enjoying having a dig at the expense of another.

 

[Vixen]

Historical evidence shows - if it does not agree with Vixen's preconceived (and wrong) ideas it will be a coverup, and a new investigation will be demanded.

Citation please. Oh sorry, you don't actually have one, you just want to spread a falsehood?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I think you'll find those are zooterkin's words.

Which ones?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Point me to where 'the authorities' point to the make and model of the car in question, you know, like they did immediately at Liverpool and Cork.

And colour. Don't forget the all-important details like its colour.

Pointless goalpost-moving. The issue is whether or not the car had a hybrid or EV battery. They have unambiguiously stated it did not. Finis.

 

[zooterkin]

The UK differs from the USA in that the UK has very strict Contempt of Court laws. A newspaper's lawyers in the UK will generally advise the newspapers not to publish anything that might be subjudice or would prejudice a court case. All the stuff in the press about Trump and his prehearing legal shenanigans likely wouldn't be reported on in the UK until the actual hearing, were it a UK court case. As an example, the was a recent serial killer, first arrested 2017 but wasn't charged until 2021. The case only came to court 2022 and that was the first time the public got to learn the details of her serial murders. So even if the 'arrested man' did approach the papers they wouldn't dare publish anything that might upset the Crown Prosecution Service or risk the case being a mistrial due to prejudice. They won't publish his name until he is actually charged.

So, no evidence of a gag at all, then?

 

[Andy_Ross]

It says on the official fire service website that it was a diesel car

How much more unequivocal can they be?

 

[Vixen]

Well, the only foreseeable evidence you're going to get is an official report. Could that evidence satisfy you?

It seems unlikely it will contradict all the information released so far about the type of car involved.

Even if hybrid cars eventually reveal themselves to be many times more likely to catch fire than other types, there's no good reason this particular event can't just be a conventional car fire. So, if the report fails to confirm the story you want it to tell, do you think you will accept it or stick to your guns and insist this had to be the kind of fire you wanted it to be instead?

I haven't insisted any such thing. If the accident was due to the driver having a fuel runway or an overheated coolant issue or even an electrical fire why not just say so? Give us the name of the model and make and charge the guy if he has committed a criminal offence. Not put him on bail 'as a precaution'.

Imagine the driver was you. OK, so you did spot your vehicle seemed to be burning and you stupidly drove into the car park anyway. Should you really have the destruction of 5,000 cars and a collapsed car park pinned on you, if the real culprit is JLR Range Rover - yet again!!! - and the fault is inherent to their model?

How fair and reasonable do you think that is, even if Tata/JLR has just been give a £4b contract by the UK government to build a million square foot EV battery factory and EV sales have gone down for various reasons and all you are doing is managing public image by pinning it all onto this one guy?

In effect, shutting down all newspaper public comments because it is now subjudice?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I haven't insisted any such thing.

You've gone above and beyond any sane amount of skepticism to clutch at a vanished straw of possibility that people claiming this was a hybrid car fire might be right. You've rejected the Bedfordshire fire brigade's unambiguous statement based on some ******** about its not being worded in a way which panders to your irrelevant personal criteria.

 

[Vixen]

LOL. See what I mean? It's got to be the same fire officer, and it's got to be another press conference, and it's got to be the make and model of the car, not just the type of powertrain, otherwise the magic spell cannot be broken.

Okay, you haven't also specified the phase of the moon, I'll give you that.

In what way is publishing the information unambiguously on their own website not a satisfactory expression of what the fire brigade know about it? In what way is that less official than one officer speaking off the cuff to the press? That makes no sense.

A reputable newspaper will always check its sources. This means they do rely heavily on official press releases. A journalist seminar I attended revealed that something like two thirds ow hat you read in the papers are press releases. For example, celebrities agents feed the press with news stories to keep their clients visible in the public eye. A politician will often put out a press release of what he or she is going to say at an official time in advance, which is why you'll often see 'sources' being quoted in advance of the press conference. Any major incident will have a carefully worded press release from the police or other authority and few newspapers will diverge from the official line. As there has been no official confirmation of the make and model of the car involved, they are leaving it up to people like yourself to confirm it was a Range Rover when in fact, they never actually said that.

There'll be a hint, such as an official picture of the vehicle burning but even then whilst it is obviously a Range Rover, it hasn't been confirmed that it definitely was a diesel-only model with no lithium battery involved whatsoever.

 

[theprestige]

Do you have any evidence to back up your jibe or is it just a cheap shot to make yourself feel better?

Yes.

It's not a jibe, it's an informed critique of your observed epistemological idiom, and an evidence-based rejection of your claim to be a scientist.

And you're being rude.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If the accident was due to the driver having a fuel runway or an overheated coolant issue or even an electrical fire why not just say so?

I'm not going to poke fun here but I will point out that the way you have written this indicates you do not understand the issues you think you are describing. And once again you have flipped from telling us how long it can take to establish the precise cause of a fire to pretending it's suspicious you aren't be told right now what the precise cause was.

The make and model is a red herring. There's no reason that information could not be officially confirmed, yet there's no reason it should be, as it's not a matter of any contention. You might as well express suspicion there's no official confirmation of how many wheels the car had.

 

[Vixen]

A section of fire-weakened floor with a one or two ton car on top of it seems likely to fall before a section which has not, ceteris parabus. A car standing on a fire-weakened floor seems more likely than average to be on fire. Do you think otherwise?

When you say the burning car, are you assuming the car you saw fall was the car that began the fire rather than one of the many other burning cars?

It takes temperatures of over 1,600 ºC to burn through concrete. A diesel fire, even if whipped up to 1,000ºC by lit rags and a leafblower won't do more than cause spalling. Spalling affects a layer of the concrete, possibly several of them, but the concrete is generally otherwise fire resistant, with just superficial damage (spalling). Whilst EV's are heavy they are not that much heavier than ICE's, other than the recent trend towards bigger and 'butch'-er looking 'SUV's. A car park, one would have thought, would have been designed to withstand several hundred cars parked on any level.

 

[Vixen]

Luton airport is 'thought' to have had a car park fire. Might be photoshop. Who knows who's in on it? What about the army of anti-EV 'wot I reckon' experts on social media, for example? Have they all got alibis?

The words are as quoted in various tabloids. GB News wrote 'it was thought to be a Range Rover' but my impression is that is their thought not an official one.