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The Official Alex Jones Thread!

The situation I'm referring to is this, from Cornell Law School:https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/judgment_debt

This applies generally to small-claims and district court claims. The phrase at the beginning of your highlight, "After obtaining an order from the court...," is doing a lot of heavy lifting. The order to enforce collection comes at the end of a lot of procedure, and isn't a given.

I imagine if Jones has $93,000 to splash about per month, it would be no problem to garnish, say, $92,000 of that per month towards his $1.5 billion black hole.

It would be, under an appropriate order (in addition to the judgment itself), and if Jones were not in bankruptcy. Filing for bankruptcy stops all collection efforts dead in their tracks.
 
Many thanks for your explanations - cogent and lucid as always.

The situation I'm referring to is this, from Cornell Law School:https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/judgment_debt

I imagine if Jones has $93,000 to splash about per month, it would be no problem to garnish, say, $92,000 of that per month towards his $1.5 billion black hole.

Bankruptcy stops all that. Now that said, it seems ridiculous that the bankruptcy court is letting him do all that spending.
 
Bankruptcy stops all that. Now that said, it seems ridiculous that the bankruptcy court is letting him do all that spending.

Exactly. I would think they would freeze his assets and give him an allowance to live on. The dude is probably going to be dead in ten years, by the way he looks, and he's just going to spend all his money before any of his debts get paid.
 
Now that said, it seems ridiculous that the bankruptcy court is letting him do all that spending.

Indeed, it's a moral outrage.

Exactly. I would think they would freeze his assets and give him an allowance to live on.

That's exactly what happens. The difference between Chapters 7 and 11 are how the estate assets are managed. In Chapter 7, all* the debtor assets are liquidated and thrown into a big pile. Creditors submit arguments to the court explaining why they should get a bigger dip out of the pile than others. The court makes an equitable judgment in which some creditors may be fully paid off, others may be partly paid off, and some creditors just go fish.

Morally this works because the debtor admits he has thrown in the towel and has to start over from basically nothing—but can do so debt-free. Creditors go for it because it changes the footing from creditor vs. debtor (can't squeeze blood from a turnip) to creditor vs. creditor. The money is there (whereas before a creditor couldn't, say, force a debtor to sell his house or do any other specific thing). All you have to do is out-lawyer your competitors and you get more pennies on your dollar.

Chapter 11 is a reorganization of assets and debts. It differs fundamentally in that the assets remain in place initially. A court-appointed trustee oversees assets and expenditures. The debtor is responsible for making a plan to restructure debts and assets, which may involve voluntary liquidation of some assets (while retaining others) and a request that the court erase or lower some debts (while retaining others), modifying the terms of repayment, or specifying a negotiation between debtors and creditors to seek amicable settlement of debt.

The debtor is also responsible for convincing the trustee of ongoing expenditures necessary to maintain the debtor entity as an ongoing concern with a plausible prospect of regaining solvency. The goals are (1) to keep the entity operating insofar as possible during the process, and (2) do the best for the creditors with the least harm to the debtor.

While the court must ultimately approve the reorganization plan, this footing still gives quite a lot of power to the debtor over Chapter 7. And the trusteeship plan is generally agreed to early so that the debtor entity can achieve stability in order to spend more time on the reorganization plan. Hence its terms are not always favorable to a broader theory of morality or equity. The trustee can even incur more debt if they believe it will result in an overall better reorganization outcome and keep the entity afloat while it restructures. And Jones can certainly hire lawyers and accountants to justify that an ongoing personal expenditure of $93,000 for his household is in everyone's best interests. And yes, punitive judgments are more dischargeable under Chapter 11.

Ya know, if Jones can't maintain his signature lifestyle, how is he going to keep public interest in him enough to make money as a public figure? (shudder!)

There is also Chapter 13 bankruptcy (limited to individuals), but I'm not smart enough to talk about it.

But yes, it's all rich-person law and economincs. The morality underneath Chapter 11 is the presumption that the debtor who can afford to go broke this way is honorable and conscientious, and that there is a greater social benefit in letting large, complex financial structures (even if it's just one person) repent of their errors with as little blood drawn as possible. It's a moral outrage that someone like Jones should be able to draw on this.

...he's just going to spend all his money before any of his debts get paid.

That's often the plan.

* With austere exceptions for very basic living necessities: some place to live, some car, etc. If you file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, they will liquidate your Rolls Royce, but perhaps let you keep some of the proceeds to buy a used Subaru.
 
Exactly. I would think they would freeze his assets and give him an allowance to live on. The dude is probably going to be dead in ten years, by the way he looks, and he's just going to spend all his money before any of his debts get paid.

he's about to go on his third family trip to Hawaii in as many months.
 
As reported by the New York Times:
The judge in Alex Jones’s bankruptcy case ruled on Thursday that he will not be allowed to use his Chapter 11 filing to evade paying more than $1 billion in verdicts to families of the Sandy Hook shooting.​

The ruling excludes $323000000 in attorneys' fees and costs, but the rest is now "non-dischargeable", meaning it is a debt that cannot be evaded through reorganization under Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
 
As reported by the New York Times:
The judge in Alex Jones’s bankruptcy case ruled on Thursday that he will not be allowed to use his Chapter 11 filing to evade paying more than $1 billion in verdicts to families of the Sandy Hook shooting.​

The ruling excludes $323000000 in attorneys' fees and costs, but the rest is now "non-dischargeable", meaning it is a debt that cannot be evaded through reorganization under Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Sounds promising for the Sandy hook families.

Now how will he weasel out of it?
 
Sounds promising for the Sandy hook families.

Now how will he weasel out of it?
Simple. He hasn't got $1.5 billion. He will have to pay something, and will try to make it as close to zero as possible. But he won't pay anywhere near the hundreds of millions he owes. It will be tiny fractions of a penny in the dollar.
 
I'm sure that bankrupting AJ in perpetuity is more important to the families than a big payday.

It would be nice to send a message that you can't lie and destroy people's lives for profit, but more likely the scum like him will just try to learn better ways to get away with it.

If the families get any satisfaction out of it I'm truly happy for them, though. I just see a lot of lawyers using this case as an example of what not to do when you're selling snake oil.
 
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Excellent video from LegalEagle explaining why Jones's bankruptcy strategy was bound to fail, and why most of his arguments that the damage awards should be discharged are nonstarters.




yt;dw: Damages for intentional and malicious injuries are not dischargeable in bankruptcy, and for the lion's share of the damages, the trials established that the injuries Jones inflicted were intentional and malicious.
 
I hope we get to hear that Jones has made the payout to his victims.

Just wondering if that might get publicised.
 
I hope we get to hear that Jones has made the payout to his victims.

Just wondering if that might get publicised.

not happening.

Jones won't be paying, the person in charge of his Bankruptcy will distribute the assets under his control, and the lawyers will have to continue looking for all the money he has stashed away, and get courts to order banks to hand it over.

Jones will never right a check to the victims himself.


And yes, we will know, because there are people who have made this all possible who keep us in the loop
 
not happening.

Jones won't be paying, the person in charge of his Bankruptcy will distribute the assets under his control, and the lawyers will have to continue looking for all the money he has stashed away, and get courts to order banks to hand it over.

Jones will never right a check to the victims himself.


And yes, we will know, because there are people who have made this all possible who keep us in the loop

Thanks.

I don't care if Jones doesn't write the cheque. I just want to know the victims get paid somehow.
 
One of the contractors on the construction site I'm currently inspecting has an InfoWars logo on his safety jacket and an InfoWars sticker on his hard hat. Today I overheard him telling a coworker a story that I'm assuming he heard on InfoWars.

According to him, Crisco shortening was invented by Nazi Germany as a "smokeless submarine fuel". Proctor & Gamble acquired the formula after World War II and began selling it as a food product. "That's one of the reasons why we have so much cancer and other **** these days."
It took me about 10 seconds of research to find that P&G began selling Crisco in 1911, just a few years before World War II. I politely and nonconfrontationally told him that Crisco had been around for decades before the Nazis. He didn't say anything, but looked kind of thoughtful. I wouldn't place any substantial bets on it, but maybe, just maybe, he'll remember this and think a little more the next time he hears an outrageous story from InfoWars.

(Insert Starship Troopers "I'm doing my part" gif.)


Looking as I finished typing this, it's apparently a variation of a claim that it was a submarine lubricant invented for use by the German Navy in 1901.
 

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