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Luton Airport Car Park Fire

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Foster Zygote said:
It seems you have no clue what a strawman fallacy actually is. Please point out the specific strawman fallacy in my post.


None of which supports you. The camera evidence shows a Land Rover that is typically diesel powered. The investigators had plenty of time by the 16th the find that vehicle and confirm that it was diesel powered.


We aren't arguing the cause of the fire. Please try to keep up. It may take some time to determine what exactly started the fire, if that's even possible, but the vehicle that caught fire has already been identified.


Probably because the name of the person is no one's business. That person hasn't been shown to have committed a crime, so why would investigators release that person's name to the public? That would be a breach of that person's privacy, akin to releasing the name of an assault victim. Personally, if that happened with my vehicle, and the police or fire investigators publicly released my name, resulting in harassment by a bunch of moronic Daily Mail commenters and conspiracy theorists, I'd be pretty pissed off.


And I'll take the fact that you completely ignored my two questions as confirmation that you have no answers.
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Your strawman that I was claiming it was an EV fire.

So now you are applying the similar tactic as another poster in a sudden volte face realsing that we cannot possibly know what the cause is yet, contrary to the insistent claims that 'Full Fact rang up Beds Fire Brigade and had it confirmed.

"We aren't arguing the cause of the fire. Please try to keep up. It may take some time to determine what exactly started the fire, if that's even possible, but the vehicle that caught fire has already been identified." ~ Foster Zygote

See what I mean about being six steps ahead? I was explaining this to you five posts ago.
 
Foster Zygote said:
As I said, I worked at dealerships in the earlier '90s. I've seen those "courses" first hand. Knowing what all the buttons and knobs do isn't equivalent to being an expert mechanic. The top salesman at one of those dealerships knew all the sales points, but that didn't make him an expert on how any of it worked. One time he had a flat battery and I had to show him how to jump start his car without electrocuting himself or causing a spark near the battery.

Watching your attempts to validate the suspicions of random, unqualified commenters on a news article, while also seeking excuses to dismiss the statements of qualified experts is, to say the least, amusing.
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I looked up my sales dealer on google as I was so impressed with him. He is an industrial engineer graduate who studied at an applied sciences university. I had the impression he was a petrolhead type who probably took all the latest model cars arriving at the showroom for a 'test drive', no older than about 25. So yes, when literally dozens of people claiming to be knowledgeable in this field said that doesn't look like a diesel fire I could see for myself they had a point. Trust your own eyes. Of course, it may have been a diesel fire as the clip we saw was very short and there is no doubt more to it than meets the eye. But come on, if they can tell us straight away it was a Land Rover that caused the Liverpool Arena car park fire in 2018, what is the problem here?


You call the aforesaid commentators ' random, unqualified commenters on a news article' but how would you class yourself? Are you more qualified to comment than they are?
 
Vixen said:
Your strawman that I was claiming it was an EV fire.

So now you are applying the similar tactic as another poster in a sudden volte face realsing that we cannot possibly know what the cause is yet, contrary to the insistent claims that 'Full Fact rang up Beds Fire Brigade and had it confirmed.

"We aren't arguing the cause of the fire. Please try to keep up. It may take some time to determine what exactly started the fire, if that's even possible, but the vehicle that caught fire has already been identified." ~ Foster Zygote

See what I mean about being six steps ahead? I was explaining this to you five posts ago.
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I'm smelling burning, but I think it's because your pants are on fire.
 
catsmate said:
Double bollocks.
1. Not true, the iniial vehicle could easily have been determined via video imagery.
2. Untrue.

Just stop this pathetically silly lying and accept you were, and are, wrong.
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What is not true?

2019

Supt Colm O’Sullivan said a car caught fire at the five-storey Douglas Village Shopping Centre on Saturday evening, causing serious structural damage to the building.

A Garda technical team entered the building on Sunday morning and were able to trace the source of the blaze to a people carrier which caught fire in the central parking block on Level 1.
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IT


1.
The car which caused the massive fire in the multi-storey car park of a Cork shopping centre almost eight weeks ago has finally been removed for specialist examination. <snip> It is understood that a number of experts, working on behalf of a number of interested parties, including insurance companies, will be given an opportunity to inspect it in an effort to establish why it burst into flames.
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https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30959872.html

Fast forward 2021

A High Court judge has made directions aimed at ensuring liability issues in two separate cases arising from a major fire at Douglas Village shopping centre in Cork should be decided in a “structured and cost-efficient way”.

<snip>

The owners are seeking more than €30 million damages after an allegedly defective Opel Zafira B car went on fire in the centre's car park, allegedly resulting in a major fire on August 31st 2019 and "immense damage" to the centre.
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https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland...s-directions-on-liability-issues-1094594.html

2.
Avoncore Ltd and Canmont Ltd, trading as the Douglas Village Shopping Centre, have commenced legal action against four named entities over the blaze, which they allege began when an Opel Zafira B Model caught fire.

The actions are against Leeson Motors Ltd, which allegedly distributed and sold the 06C-registered car, and German-based Adam Opel GmbH, which manufactured and designed the vehicle.

The other defendants are Opel Automobile GmbH and Vauxhall Motors Ltd in the UK, who the plaintiffs say were responsible for dealing with aspects of Zafira B models being recalled.
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IT

What is not true? They did not know what the fault was until it became apparent that the car involved was defective and had been subject to recall in 2017. It took eight to ten weeks to ascertain this.

On what basis are you claiming as a definite fact that the cause of the fire has been identified as being that of diesel car only?
 
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Vixen, do you understand that 'the fire started with a diesel car' says nothing about the specific cause of the fire?
 
zooterkin said:
I'm smelling burning, but I think it's because your pants are on fire.
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Have you already forgotten you were absolutely insisting that your article from Full Fact was the final last word in the matter?


Now suddenly today you've realised this is total codswallop.

But our memories are not so short as to what you were spouting only just yesterday.
 
Vixen said:
Have you already forgotten you were absolutely insisting that your article from Full Fact was the final last word in the matter?


Now suddenly today you've realised this is total codswallop.

But our memories are not so short as to what you were spouting only just yesterday.
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More lies. Could you try reading and replying to what people have actually posted, not the version in your imagination?
 
Vixen said:
Have you already forgotten you were absolutely insisting that your article from Full Fact was the final last word in the matter?

Now suddenly today you've realised this is total codswallop.
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Can you explain exactly what you think is 'codswallop' about the Full Fact article's claim to have been told by the fire brigade that the car was a diesel?
 
Help me out here: is there a weir involved which is actually somewhere else?

It's so hard to keep up with all this lot and I find it confusing...Pop out for extra supplies of mulberry bushes and it all goes haywire.
 
Carrot Flower King said:
Help me out here: is there a weir involved which is actually somewhere else?

It's so hard to keep up with all this lot and I find it confusing...Pop out for extra supplies of mulberry bushes and it all goes haywire.
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The bow doors of the vehicle could be considered to be "weir" shaped. Good thing there was no dog tied to it.
 
Steve said:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...why-some-people-will-never-admit-theyre-wrong
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Yeah, but here it's all in writing!

Take the milk example from that article - You leave the house. I leave later, leaving a note saying we're low on milk but I'll get some in my lunch break. I confirm that by text. I come home and you ask about the milk --

Did you get the milk?
What milk?
We're almost out, you were going to get some. You left a note.
Me? Nah. You're imagining it.
Here's the note, and here's the text you sent me.
Note must be forged, and maybe my phone has been hacked.

This is not too far from what's being inflicted here. It's beyond just 'weird'.
 
Vixen said:
Your strawman that I was claiming it was an EV fire.
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Maybe you could step up to the chalkboard and show the rest of the class exactly where it was I did that? Ironically, you are attributing to me something I have not actually said. We all know that you'll maintain a careful position of "just asking questions" so as to avoid ever having to defend the ideas you are simply presenting as "interesting". It's not like we haven't all seen that tactic played out a few thousand times on this forum.

So now you are applying the similar tactic as another poster in a sudden volte face realsing that we cannot possibly know what the cause is yet, contrary to the insistent claims that 'Full Fact rang up Beds Fire Brigade and had it confirmed.

"We aren't arguing the cause of the fire. Please try to keep up. It may take some time to determine what exactly started the fire, if that's even possible, but the vehicle that caught fire has already been identified." ~ Foster Zygote
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You are really bad at this. What part of "we're talking about the type of vehicle in which the fire started, not what caused the fire" do you not understand? Maybe an investigation of the wrecked Land Rover will point to a source for the fire. But it's quite likely that the needed evidence was destroyed in the fire. If it was worn electrical insulation, or a stuck caliper, or a dropped cigar etcetera, the evidence was most likely destroyed in the fire. That doesn't matter to this discussion because what's being argued is whether the vehicle had a Li-ion battery, and the fire investigators have stated that it did not.

See what I mean about being six steps ahead? I was explaining this to you five posts ago.
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You can't even keep track of the argument from post to post, let alone get out ahead of anyone.
 
Vixen said:
I looked up my sales dealer on google as I was so impressed with him. He is an industrial engineer graduate who studied at an applied sciences university. I had the impression he was a petrolhead type who probably took all the latest model cars arriving at the showroom for a 'test drive', no older than about 25. So yes, when literally dozens of people claiming to be knowledgeable in this field said that doesn't look like a diesel fire I could see for myself they had a point. Trust your own eyes. Of course, it may have been a diesel fire as the clip we saw was very short and there is no doubt more to it than meets the eye. But come on, if they can tell us straight away it was a Land Rover that caused the Liverpool Arena car park fire in 2018, what is the problem here?


You call the aforesaid commentators ' random, unqualified commenters on a news article' but how would you class yourself? Are you more qualified to comment than they are?
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I would say I am more qualified than they are, having almost three decades in automotive manufacturing and dealing with design engineers and safety engineers. It by no means makes me an expert on car fires, but I would say more knowledgeable than most.
 
Vixen said:
I looked up my sales dealer on google as I was so impressed with him. He is an industrial engineer graduate who studied at an applied sciences university. I had the impression he was a petrolhead type who probably took all the latest model cars arriving at the showroom for a 'test drive', no older than about 25.
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Even if we assume that your unverified anecdote is true, so what? If you find one plumber who used to be a paramedic, that doesn't mean you're justified in citing a bunch of plumbers as experts on how to respond to serious injuries caused in a traffic accident.


So yes, when literally dozens of people claiming to be knowledgeable in this field said that doesn't look like a diesel fire I could see for myself they had a point. Trust your own eyes.
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So please tell us what to look for. What are the exact differences between a Li-ion fire and a diesel fire that we should be looking for?

Of course, it may have been a diesel fire as the clip we saw was very short and there is no doubt more to it than meets the eye. But come on, if they can tell us straight away it was a Land Rover that caused the Liverpool Arena car park fire in 2018, what is the problem here?
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That fire was found to be caused by a 16 year old car that had been converted to use different fuel. It wasn't an EV or a hybrid.

You call the aforesaid commentators ' random, unqualified commenters on a news article' but how would you class yourself? Are you more qualified to comment than they are?
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The difference that you fail to apprehend is that I'm not the one saying the experts are wrong. I'm just pointing out that the experts have said something, at that some other people who have contradicted them have no authority to make such a claim. You can't twist this to be me against the conspiracy theorists - it's still the experts against the conspiracy theorists.
 
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