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Ed General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 3

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67129117

Could somebody explain to me what the hell two Swedes in Belgium had to do with the situation in Gaza or anything in the Mideast?
Whoever did the shooting is batcrap crazy,that is for sure. Whethe they are "genuine" Islamic extemist or some psycho who just decided to mouth the slogans
 
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A line from FUll Metal Jacket comes to mind for then ext few weeks..or longer:

"We are n the middle of one huge S--- Sandwich, and we are all going to have to take a bite".
 
In all the interviews with pro-Palestine leaders in Australia, there was not one I saw where a question was asked about Hamas’ charter. The average viewer is being led to believe that Hamas are the brave freedom fighters with the welfare of Gazans central to them. Rather than the reality, a terrorist group (by definition) with the objective of destroying Israel.
 
In all the interviews with pro-Palestine leaders in Australia, there was not one I saw where a question was asked about Hamas’ charter. The average viewer is being led to believe that Hamas are the brave freedom fighters with the welfare of Gazans central to them. Rather than the reality, a terrorist group (by definition) with the objective of destroying Israel.

The right has no monopoly on biased jouranlism.
 
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A deal has been made with Israel on letting aid into Gaza. Details will be announced by Biden in Israel.
 
Peace is peace.

Violence is horror, terror, pain, death

perhaps all these things are things you want?
Although the difference would be that Russia says Ukrainians are synonymous with Russians, that Ukrainians are equal and the same as Russians. israelis are saying that Palestinians cannot be part of Israel, some members of the government openly argue for ethic cleansing and driving Palestinians out of 'Greater Israel'. Palestinians are not recognised as equal to Israelis. They would not be permitted to be Israeli citizens.

This does not mean I support violence by Russia. It just means like most analogies it fails when you look at the details.


Err... Actual peace may be good. Sometimes, though, as with Russia (among a number of other states that engage in genocide), a number of versions of "peace" can mean horror, terror, pain, and death, in practice. Russia says Ukrainians are synonymous with Russians and that Ukrainians don't really exist at the same time. Actions speak louder than words, though, especially with vranyo as a notable feature in play, and the ongoing campaign of barely veiled genocide does quite speak to what can be expected from a "peace" on Russian terms, even if one ignores Russian history and the current cultural state of affairs.

As it stands, at last check, even when there is not active fighting, Hamas has visited horror, terror, pain, and death upon the Palestinians of Gaza as they seized power and acted to hold it with an iron fist. Further, they actively work to teach genocidal hate to their children. They are one of the main forces actively working to prevent real peace and prosperity for Gaza's Palestinians.

Israel's sins may be numerous and similar in some ways, but that's not actually a real defense for Hamas or any indication that Hamas has ever had any reliable interest in actual peace in the first place.
 
The difference, of course is that Israel has in the past been offering peace. Hamas never has.

I think that is a bit disingenuous.
Israel never accepted Hamas as a competent negotiation partner. All they would have accepted from them is unilateral ceasefire.
 
Quite sincerely why? Why does it make it worse if they decapitate the babies rather than use a bullet or a rocket?
If you target the baby with the bullet or rocket, it is the same. I was comparing it with collateral damage where the baby is not targeted, but is still dead.

There is also an ethics question about accepting babies (or anybody else for that matter) as collateral damage, but that is another matter.
 
When Moscow says that Ukrainians aren't a real people, that Ukraine isn't a real country, and that the final solution to the problem of Ukraine is annexation and ethnic cleansing, we take them at their word. When Palestinians say the exact same thing about Israel, we (some of us) say, "they're the good guys, stop worrying about their rhetoric. "

Who?
 
If you target the baby with the bullet or rocket, it is the same. I was comparing it with collateral damage where the baby is not targeted, but is still dead.

There is also an ethics question about accepting babies (or anybody else for that matter) as collateral damage, but that is another matter.

I've been thinking a bit more about my own question as I know I feel it is worse if the babies were decapitated rather than shot and killed. But in the end I'm with the IDF spokesperson in that it really doesn't matter the method (excluding torture which as I said I believe is a different matter) used to kill the babies, they are all barbaric.
 
When you have killed or abducted everyone who could take take of a baby, you have already committed a barbarian atrocity.
not also killing the baby then, but letting it starve and freeze alone might be the cruellest of all.
 
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I think we can all agree that whatever Israel is doing, it's not going to lead to peace.

I think we can all agree that whatever Israel is doing, it's not going to satisfy Hamas and others who think that Israel shouldn't even exist, as well as their numerous sympathizers in the Western world
 
I think we can all agree that whatever Israel is doing, it's not going to satisfy Hamas and others who think that Israel shouldn't even exist, as well as their numerous sympathizers in the Western world

I'm so tired with this.

Honestly, what impact on the IDF efforts do you think do a few misguided students and some attention-seeking tiktokers/youtubers have?
Do you actually believe that if no one in the West criticized Israel, there would be peace?

Or are you just virtue signalling and enjoying the opportunity to be righteously outraged?
 
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Honestly, what impact on the IDF efforts do you think do a few misguided students and some attention-seeking tiktokers/youtubers have?

No idea but how does this relate to what I said?

Do you actually believe that if no one in the West criticized Israel, there would be peace?

No at all, but how does this relate to what I said?

I'm so tired with this.
Or are you just virtue signalling and enjoying the opportunity to be righteously outraged?

Yes. I stand by my words and am enjoying the opportunity to express my disgust with the said groups of people: Hamas and others who think that Israel shouldn't even exist, as well as their numerous sympathizers in the Western world.
 
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