The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

[Vixen]

We know exactly what model they were.
They were manual only activation

Only in your opinion.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

So, nothing changed.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Only in your opinion.

No, we know what model they were and who made them.
It is a manual activation only model.
It's in the manufacturers manuals and specifications.

 

[Mojo]

What changed?

Vixen posted another fringe reset.

 

[Mojo]

To recap:

• the JAIC confirm the bow visor fell off at 01:02.
• Ainsalu's first may day received by a nearby ship (Mariella) was at 01:21.
• Captn Thoresson of Mariella had to turn his receiver up to maximum to hear Ainsalu.
• Ainsalu could not give the second Captain of Europa his location because he was not on the bridge to see it.
• Tammes the third captain then came on and was cut off at 01:24 with a location 8" out.
• Capt. Seppanen of Europa said he had the impression MV Estonia could not hear him.
• Ainsalu and Tammes were using handheld walkie talkies outside the bridge.
• What was happening on the bridge - why wasn't the bridge sending out the mayday?
• Captn Thoresson had to ring up MRCC Turku on their landline number as they were not picking up radio communication.
• MRCC did not get through to MRCC Mariehamn in the Ålands until 01:44
• Helsinki Radio did not get the correct location until 01:44.
• MRCC Stockholm did not get the may day until 01:58. The ship hit the seabed 01:54.
• MRCC Stockholm logs show it put rescue into action at 02:02.
• Finnish Coastguard Commander Iivesson told JAIC that there was a signal from a Russian base that constantly blocked Channel 16 and on this night, Channel 2122 - a general radio communications channel across the Baltic - as well.
• In his mayday, Tammes, or Ainsalu, advised there was a 'blackout'.

So between 01:02 - when the bow visor fell off - to 02:02 when MRCC Stockholm finally effected rescue, there was a communications blackout. Plus the EPIRB's failed to emit location as they should have done.

If there was 'no communications blackout' explain in which way?

There it is now.

 

[zooterkin]

Only in your opinion.

And yours.

The Estonian service electricians inspected the buoys' activities about a week before the accident and by then those had been operating normally. Those Kannad 406-F (=free-floating) were tested as follows: the buoy's "cage" was carefully opened and the buoy was raised. When the indicator light started flashing, the cap was opened and the switch was turned to the OFF position. In that case, the signal would not yet have emitted. At the time there was no test button.
...

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Vixen posted another fringe reset.

Indeed. If you go through her bullet points they say 'communications cockup' rather than 'communications blackout'.

Most of the list pertain to the Estonia not using her radio while it still had power, and crew eventually using walkie talkies instead.

I noted the weasel wording of the remark that the mayday mentioned blackout, inviting us to imagine it meant something other than a literal blackout as the ship lost power.

 

[Steve]

Only in your opinion.

All of your posts in all of these Estonia threads consist of nothing but your (largely incorrect, unsubstantiated, and frequently bizarre) opinions.

 

[Mojo]

And yours.

The Estonian service electricians inspected the buoys' activities about a week before the accident and by then those had been operating normally. Those Kannad 406-F (=free-floating) were tested as follows: the buoy's "cage" was carefully opened and the buoy was raised. When the indicator light started flashing, the cap was opened and the switch was turned to the OFF position. In that case, the signal would not yet have emitted. At the time there was no test button.

See also ^.

 

[Mojo]

I noted the weasel wording of the remark that the mayday mentioned blackout, inviting us to imagine it meant something other than a literal blackout as the ship lost power.

Quite apart from the problem inherent in sending a mayday to announce a communications blackout.

 

[Here_to_learn]

If there was 'no communications blackout' explain in which way?

Explained in chapter 17.2 in the JAIC report. To summarize - the Finnish organisation was not staffed to be able to handle an accident this size, and that delayed the rescue operation.

As has been pointed out many times in this (and previous) threads.

 

[Disbelief]

As the documentation for the EPIRB's and the EPIRB's themselves are now missing - according to YLE journalists who wanted to access the material - we may now never know what the JAIC meant in Jan 1995 when it said the EPIRB's were 'untuned' and 'switched off'.

Think of a radio that is tuned 'off' any station and also switched off, then it will become apparent it is possible for both conditions to coexist.

Why do you lie about who said this? Also, you still have zero idea of how these work. Since you assert that they were "tuned" off, who would have had the opportunity to "tune" them back so they functioned when found? Also, you never provided a manual showing the process for tuning them in the field.

 

[Mojo]

Since you assert that they were "tuned" off, who would have had the opportunity to "tune" them back so they functioned when found?

The Swedish secret services in their wheeled submarines.

Also, you never provided a manual showing the process for tuning them in the field.

That's because the Swedish secret service EPIRB tuning manuals are classified.

 

[phiwum]

Insert a few choice schoolboy words and it is pure Boy's Own.

with apologies to Max Hastings.

Huh. So if you change the words to schoolboy words, then the writing sounds like a gushing schoolboy. That is a totally fair criticism.

 

[phiwum]

As the documentation for the EPIRB's and the EPIRB's themselves are now missing - according to YLE journalists who wanted to access the material - we may now never know what the JAIC meant in Jan 1995 when it said the EPIRB's were 'untuned' and 'switched off'.

Think of a radio that is tuned 'off' any station and also switched off, then it will become apparent it is possible for both conditions to coexist.

I was under the impression that the word you translate as "untuned" came from a newspaper article, perhaps reporting on what Lehtola said. Is there an actual JAIC document that uses this word?

 

[Mojo]

Huh. So if you change the words to schoolboy words, then the writing sounds like a gushing schoolboy. That is a totally fair criticism.

I expect Vixen is six steps ahead of Sir Max, and is just criticising what he would have written if he had only had more time.

ETA: http://www.wepsite.de/Critic's Choice.htm

That is true. Mr. Hobson didn't appear to enjoy the play at all. But as you know, these critics have to write their pieces in a great hurry. They have to work to a deadline, you know. And quite often I think they say things they don't really mean at all. That's the charitable view of it, anyway. So, here we have taken the liberty of extracting individual letters from Mr. Hobson's original review and putting them together more carefully than he would have had time to do.

 

[ferd burfle]

For crying out loud, the reinvestigation of the MV Estonia is current news and not your imagination.

Non sequitur, but thanks for playing.

 

[Steve]

For crying out loud, the reinvestigation of the MV Estonia is current news and not your imagination.

And yet this thread is not to be found in the "Social Issues and Current Events" section of this forum. It is likely that everyone posting here, bar one, knows exactly why.

 

[whoanellie]

For crying out loud, the reinvestigation of the MV Estonia is current news and not your imagination.

Isn't the new investigation confirming the conclusions of the initial one?

 

[JayUtah]

For crying out loud, the reinvestigation of the MV Estonia is current news and not your imagination.

But you keep rehashing 25-year-old conspiracy theories instead of talking about the new investigation. And a lot of those rely heavily on your imagination.