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Cont: Transwomen are not women - part 13

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Matthew Best said:
In the olden days we had transexuals and transvestites, and the two were completely different. Nowadays they are all considered transgender.
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Interestingly, the people who consider themselves transexuals do NOT consider transvestites to be the same as them. And a surprisingly large number of transexuals are quite opposed to the erosion of female spaces, female rights, and the forced inclusion of any male that says magic words. And they almost all are quite clear that they have a mental health disorder.
 
Elaedith said:
Nonsense' of gender data collected by public bodies set for review (UK)

'The Science Secretary will on Tuesday unveil a review into the “utter nonsense” of public bodies being urged to collect data on self-identified gender rather than biological sex.'

'The review will last six months and be headed up by Prof Alice Sullivan, the head of research at UCL’s Social Research Institute. It will analyse the collection of research and statistics by all public bodies on sex and gender, with specific recommendations to be made at the end.'
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:bigclap:
 
Emily's Cat said:
And for basic bathrooms, as I've said for ages and ages... use the bathroom that other people are going to assume you belong in.
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Agreed, but that basically means there's no way to write a policy which sorts everyone into the best room. As theprestige wrote, it would instead be "governed by passing, the honor system, and charitable impulses."

I'm just fine with this, it's basically what we all did up until relatively recently when some American states started passing laws favoring gender identity over sexual physiology and others started passing laws drawing bright lines based on sex at birth.
 
I think there'd be a lot more tolerance for casual blurring of the sex-segregated bathroom line, if TRAs were willing to agree to bright lines on sex segregation in sports and prisons and locker rooms and equitable representation.
 
theprestige said:
I think there'd be a lot more tolerance for casual blurring of the sex-segregated bathroom line, if TRAs were willing to agree to bright lines on sex segregation in sports and prisons and locker rooms and equitable representation.
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I don't know where precisely it lands, but I feel like the solution is down this road.
 
theprestige said:
I think there'd be a lot more tolerance for casual blurring of the sex-segregated bathroom line, if TRAs were willing to agree to bright lines on sex segregation in sports and prisons and locker rooms and equitable representation.
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I see no reason to believe that
 
TurkeysGhost said:
I see no reason to believe that
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Because you don't want it to be true because you don't want a compromise or a solution to be reached because you want to people to hate and you don't want that to go away.
 
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gnome said:
I apologize if I'm digging up something that was already gone over, being that the thread is so deep and I discuss the topic elsewhere.

What actions constitute a school "transitioning" a child? That's a rather active verb.
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From the schools, it generally consists of adopting changed names/pronouns, the use of opposite sex facilities such as bathrooms and/or locker rooms, and possibly even counseling. In short, they assist with social transition. The schools obviously don't do the medical transition, but socially transitioning them can encourage them to medically transition as well.

Here's a recent court ruling against a school district policy of transitioning a child without parental consent:
https://legalinsurrection.com/wp-co...oraine-School-District-Decision-and-Order.pdf
There's a few interesting tidbits here. The first is that unlike some other cases, this didn't involve the school going behind the parent's backs. The parents weren't kept in the dark. The school simply ingored their preferences.

The second interesting tidbit is that the parents in this case were not the "anti-trans freaks" that TG likes to talk about. They actually sent their daughter to a gender clinic to assist in transitioning. It was only later that they made the decision that transition wasn't the right move. And the daughter, who originally wanted to transition to a boy, now agrees that transition is the wrong move. That indicates very strongly that the parents aren't motivated by some sort of anti-trans animus, but rather figured out that it wasn't right for their daughter, and made the correct call to halt transition.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Because you don't want it to be true because you don't want a compromise or a solution to be reached because you want to people to hate and you don't want that to go away.
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You have yet to comment on the Canada solution other than to deflect. I'm seeing now you're not really interested in "solutions" so much as you are just JAQing off.

What do you think of the Canadian solution, even if only limited to the context of the utopian Canada that exists in your imagination? Do you find it acceptable, why or why not?
 
Ziggurat said:
From the schools, it generally consists of adopting changed names/pronouns, the use of opposite sex facilities such as bathrooms and/or locker rooms, and possibly even counseling. In short, they assist with social transition. The schools obviously don't do the medical transition, but socially transitioning them can encourage them to medically transition as well.
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I guess you could call it a semantic quibble, but you could also call it excessive spin. It sounds more like the student was transitioning socially, and the school facilitated it. Saying the school "transitioned" the student implies that the decision was made by the school, not the student.

The example cited is a case when the student disagreed with the parent, and the court ruled they must defer to the parent. Okay, if that's how the law is. I reject the implication that the school is the prime mover of events here.
 
They are parents out there who would react badly to even the idea that there child has a non-traditional sexuality. Schools aren't obligated to just pretend that isn't true.

If you can't image ANY reasonable scenario where telling a child's parents the are non-traditionally sexual might go bad, I just don't know what to tell you.

Again we're talking a wide range of different things and trying to lump them all under one single thing.
 
JoeMorgue said:
They are parents out there who would react badly to even the idea that there child has a non-traditional sexuality. Schools aren't obligated to just pretend that isn't true.

If you can't image ANY reasonable scenario where telling a child's parents the are non-traditionally sexual might go bad, I just don't know what to tell you.
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School staff shouldn't be imagining any scenarios at all. Certainly they shouldn't be imagining scenarios that involve conspiring with a student to keep secrets from their parents, without accountability or oversight.

If a teacher or administrator has evidence that a specific student is in a specific situation, where they need adult intervention and the parents cannot be involved, that should be reported to the proper authorities. CPS. The police.

Not this, "well we can imagine some parents might not be on board with this, so we're just not going to involve any of them at all, and we're not going to be accountable to anyone for keeping parents out of the loop, because **** parents" nonsense.
 
Outside of some stupid "Evil liberal brainwashing teachers are trying to turn children trans just to spite parents" nonsense I don't know what the ulterior motive is supposed to be on the teachers side, so I don't care.

It's way more likely that a parent is going to have an unreasonably negative reaction to their child being trans then there is for teachers to "conspire" to keep it from parents for... reasons.
 
All this talk about schools and trans students reminded me that I meant to share this podcast over here:

In August 2022, at a packed school board meeting in Grapevine, Texas, a mom approaches the microphone and describes the exact nightmare that Republican politicians have been warning about. She accuses a teacher of convincing her child to change genders. As a result, she says, “I lost my son.” But when NBC News reporters…look into this mother’s allegations, they find a different story: of a transgender child desperately wanting to be heard, a mother determined to put God first — and an English teacher caught in the middle. And they discover this isn’t just a story about one broken family. It’s also a story about a fringe religious movement wielding newfound power and the revival of a long-simmering quest by evangelicals to remake American education based on their version of biblical values.​

It's sort of a sequel to Southlake, set in another relatively well-off DFW suburb where I went to middle school back in the 80s.
 
JoeMorgue said:
They are parents out there who would react badly to even the idea that there child has a non-traditional sexuality. Schools aren't obligated to just pretend that isn't true.

If you can't image ANY reasonable scenario where telling a child's parents the are non-traditionally sexual might go bad, I just don't know what to tell you.
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We've been over this already. Nobody here thinks schools have any obligation to tell parents that their child is non-traditionally sexual. It's only when the schools take action that there should be an obligation for the school to consult the parents. What the child does on their own regarding their gender identity or sexuality the school has no obligation to report, or frankly even notice.
 
JoeMorgue said:
It's way more likely that a parent is going to have an unreasonably negative reaction to their child being trans then there is for teachers to "conspire" to keep it from parents for... reasons.
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How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Sounds like you concluded it for reasons.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Outside of some stupid "Evil liberal brainwashing teachers are trying to turn children trans just to spite parents" nonsense I don't know what the ulterior motive is supposed to be on the teachers side, so I don't care.

It's way more likely that a parent is going to have an unreasonably negative reaction to their child being trans then there is for teachers to "conspire" to keep it from parents for... reasons.
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I’d think most parents would have a negative reaction to a non-relative adult have private sexual conversations with their child.
 
Trausti said:
I’d think most parents would have a negative reaction to a non-relative adult have private sexual conversations with their child.
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Yes God ******* forbid your little Timmy get proper sex ed in school or anything like that.
 
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