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Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

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Mojo said:
It comes as no surprise that you aren't concerned about the reliability of your sources.




You did not see that the stern ramp was opened by crew to let out noxious fumes, you didn't see cannon going off in John Major's back yard, and you didn't see a Times newspaper report filed by an embedded reporter in the German front lines at Stalingrad.
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Given the choice between my comments and some random guy on the internet who claims he is the guy in charge of Cockney slang and that his approval and consent must be applied for first, you go for the random guy on the internet. The same guy who claimed Brompton hospital does not exist and nor was it part of the Frimley group. Because, well he is in charge, and I forgot to ask for his approval first as to whether a cockney used the term 'Kemo Sabe' because he is in charge of all the cockneys, who ever inhabited Bermondsey or Shadwell, including the Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, the Huguenots, etc. No cockney rhyming slang gets allowed here unless Mr "I'm in Charge of Cockney" gives the rubber stamp of approval first. He is also in charge of who saw what of the Downing Street bombs and woe betide anyone who doesn't OK it with him first or he'll spread untrue malicious stories about you. What does it say about you that you prefer to believe a malicious bully who delights in claiming I didn't experience what I said I experienced?

The Met Police WhatsApp Group is three doors along if you enjoy indulging in that type of 'banter'.

BTW I didn't say the report was from the front line of Stalingrad. Stop telling lies.
 
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Vixen said:
Given the choice between my comments and some random guy on the internet who claims he is the guy in charge of Cockney slang and that his approval and consent must be applied for first, you go for the random guy on the internet. The same guy who claimed Brompton hospital does not exist and nor was it part of the Frimley group. Because, well he is in charge, and I forgot to ask for his approval first as to whether a cockney used the term 'Kemo Sabe' because he is in charge of all the cockneys, who ever inhabited Bermondsey or Shadwell, including the Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, the Huguenots, etc. No cockney rhyming slang gets allowed here unless Mr "I'm in Charge of Cockney" gives the rubber stamp of approval first. He is also in charge of who saw what of the Downing Street bombs and woe betide anyone who doesn't OK it with him first or he'll spread untrue malicious stories about you. What does it say about you that you prefer to believe a malicious bully who delights in claiming I didn't experience what I said I experienced?

The Met Police WhatsApp Group is three doors along if you enjoy indulging in that type of 'banter'.
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So you can't produce these photos to back up your story, then?
 
Vixen said:
Given the choice between my comments and some random guy on the internet
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Since you have demonstrably lied in just the last couple of pages in this thread, what gives you the idea that you have any shred of credibility on any topic whatsoever, and that we should take your word for anything without supporting evidence?
 
Vixen said:
Söderarm is 73nm from wreck, Tallinn 94 nm. The full distance Tallinn to Söderarm is 163nm. The mathematical halfway point is 83nm.*In other words 21nm or 10nm from the Söderarm side of the midpoint and11 from the Tallinn end.

10 nm is roughly within 6% of the entire journey. As an analogy, if it was based on one hour, say, rather than distance, then 6% would be equivalent to a time frame of 3.6 minutes either side of the allotted expected time. Which is pretty tight. Bearing in mind the foibles of the waves and the wind speed.

In case you are asking, how come it doesn't add up to 73 + 94 = 167, this is because in Steve Morse's distance calculator, he adjusts for the fact that latitude is only exactly 60nm per 1º at the Equator. Due to earth being globe-shaped, his distance calculations include an adjustment for latitudes and longitudes further north and south of the equator. So one short journey might add up to X nm and a continuation, to Y nm, but the entire journey combined, X + Y might throw out a curve ball result based on this inherent mathematical adjustment.
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Sounds more like the triangle inequality for spherical geometry than something to do with latitude.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
Vixen said:
Given the choice between my comments and some random guy on the internet who claims he is the guy in charge of Cockney slang and that his approval and consent must be applied for first, you go for the random guy on the internet. The same guy who claimed Brompton hospital does not exist and nor was it part of the Frimley group. Because, well he is in charge, and I forgot to ask for his approval first as to whether a cockney used the term 'Kemo Sabe' because he is in charge of all the cockneys, who ever inhabited Bermondsey or Shadwell, including the Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, the Huguenots, etc. No cockney rhyming slang gets allowed here unless Mr "I'm in Charge of Cockney" gives the rubber stamp of approval first. He is also in charge of who saw what of the Downing Street bombs and woe betide anyone who doesn't OK it with him first or he'll spread untrue malicious stories about you. What does it say about you that you prefer to believe a malicious bully who delights in claiming I didn't experience what I said I experienced?



The Met Police WhatsApp Group is three doors along if you enjoy indulging in that type of 'banter'.
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Ah, yes.

The foot-stamping fit about how all this "expertise" is so oppressive and silences alternative voices from expressing their rights, people who know more about stuff than me are being bullies.

The circle-jerk self-victimization meeting is three doors along if you enjoy that type of "banter."
 
Vixen said:
No, I was quoting professional technical EXPERTS who actually worked with the things vocationally.

This is an argument that will go nowhere as you refuse to acknowledge it. You claim Helsingin Sanomat and Asser Kovisto, together with several others, such as Lt Capn Montonen of the coastguards are all liars.
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No, you are making stuff up.

There is no way to 'detune' a beacon.
They are sealed units,they can be turned on by the switch or on automatic versions by the switch or by immersion.

There's nothing else that can be done.
The beacons were recovered and worked exactly as designed.

Show me one that has anything but an activation switch or any way to gain access by the user to 'detune' it.

The actual user and workshop service manuals for the model in use on Estonia was posted to the thread.
 
Vixen said:
Smuggling of ex-Soviet nuclear waste was no joke.
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Why would anyone want Soviet nuclear waste when there's thousands of tons of nuclear waste already in the West?
Who would want to add more to the pile?
 
zooterkin said:
Since you have demonstrably lied in just the last couple of pages in this thread, what gives you the idea that you have any shred of credibility on any topic whatsoever, and that we should take your word for anything without supporting evidence?
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You have been told that I directly stated the corrected weight of the bow visor when asked.

Don't judge others by your own standards,

The weight of the bow visor is really not something that is important, as it is a simple fact that can be looked up by anyone who cares to check it.
 
Vixen said:
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The same guy who claimed Brompton hospital does not exist and nor was it part of the Frimley group.
...
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You're referring to me? I asked for your advice on the Brompton/Frimley connection and you clarified the matter. I thanked you for it.

You've just posted a filthy lie.
 
Vixen said:
You have been told that I directly stated the corrected weight of the bow visor when asked.
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I know what you said; we can all see it. It was a lie, as laid out in my posts above, which quote the original posts you made.
The weight of the bow visor is really not something that is important, as it is a simple fact that can be looked up by anyone who cares to check it.
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Something so simple, which you signally failed to do yourself, and then you tried to evade responsibility for your error.
 
Andy_Ross said:
No, you are making stuff up.

There is no way to 'detune' a beacon.
They are sealed units,they can be turned on by the switch or on automatic versions by the switch or by immersion.

There's nothing else that can be done.
The beacons were recovered and worked exactly as designed.

Show me one that has anything but an activation switch or any way to gain access by the user to 'detune' it.

The actual user and workshop service manuals for the model in use on Estonia was posted to the thread.
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Yeah, yeah. We'll just have to agree to differ. I have IOM Chapter III regulations on my side, Mr. Koivisto and a whole bunch of other guys, including the Rockwater diving team who recovered the HRU of one of the beacons.
 
Vixen said:
I wasn't referring to either Björkmann or MS Saga Star. I was referencing

photos I have seen myself. Of course it is negligent to fail to lower the bow visor. But as I pointed out, MS Estonia had barely left the coastal region of Estonia just as she reached the way point where she turned WNW towards Stockholm, she only reached international waters after 22 nm.
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Can you share the photos? A link or a scan perhaps.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
Vixen said:
[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53226056122_37a1a9490f_c.jpg[/qimg]Viking Sally Bow Vsior by Username Vixen, on Flickr
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Yes, that's a ship in a port channel, as evidenced by the green buoy. That's when it's appropriate and required to raise the bow visor, because you can't approach your terminal and then open the visor.

You claimed it was "not unusual" for ships to sail their entire voyages with the visor up. Please provide evidence of such a ferry in open water, as you claim.
 
zooterkin said:
I know what you said; we can all see it. It was a lie, as laid out in my posts above, which quote the original posts you made.


Something so simple, which you signally failed to do yourself, and then you tried to evade responsibility for your error.
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So you keep claiming. You can't bring yourself to admit that I did indeed state that, with the casing, including three girders and some frames that the bow visor weighed 55 tonnes.

I am not interested in saving your face that you chose to misread it as 'oh it's 15kg plus the rest of the bow visor'.
 
Vixen said:
Americans have a great sense of humour and of course they understand irony and satire. They just haven't grown up with the type of schoolboy stuff Brits have. Brits have never quite come out of the playground, so whilst Americans love Superman and Batman, Brits have Roy of the Rovers and Beryl the Peril as their superheroes. It's an anti-hero thing in some ways.
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Ok, so comics is yet another thing you know **** all about.

As an aside my favourite comic book characters when I was properly into them were Batman and Marshall Law*, despite my being related to Frank Hampson.

Neither Roy of the Rovers, nor Beryl the Peril were anyone's superheroes, mostly because neither of those characters are superheroes.

*it could be argued that this supports Vixen's antihero = more popular in UK hypothesis, but how can that be squared with the ongoing popularity of Batman in the US?


Please note: this post has been heavily editied in order to not derail the thread any further than it has already been.

TLDR: Vixen doesn't know what she's talking about. Again.
 
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