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Cont: Transwomen are not women - part 13

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good to know pointlessly triggering the other side isn't solely a red team tactic

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It's not the "transphobes" who are mutilating and chemically castrating children in the name of an anti-science ideology.

It's not a phobia when it's motivated by a rational evaluation of arguments and outcomes. And when it's not even directed at actual gender dysphorics. Who, more and more seem to be hapless pawns in some larger game.

It's pretty obvious that TG is more concerned with vilifying dissenting voices, than with safeguarding the health of prepubescent children who are exploring gender expression as part of their natural development.
 
theprestige said:
It's not the "transphobes" who are mutilating and chemically castrating children in the name of an anti-science ideology.

It's not a phobia when it's motivated by a rational evaluation of arguments and outcomes. And when it's not even directed at actual gender dysphorics. Who, more and more seem to be hapless pawns in some larger game.

It's pretty obvious that TG is more concerned with vilifying dissenting voices, than with safeguarding the health of prepubescent children who are exploring gender expression as part of their natural development.
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Actual gender dysphorics is an important phrase. I think we should explore. In nature it is unrecognisable in the way homosexuality is.
The number is somewhere in this confusion, Leor Sapir gets about 1 in 6000.
This gets us to fewer than 1000 in the 5 million club of countries, Scotland, Ireland, New Zealand, Portugal, states of America and Australia and so on. New Zealand is currently sterilizing more than 1,000 children.
 
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d4m10n said:
Wait, what? It is totally possible for hunter gatherer societies to recognize a third gender like fa'afafine.
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The third genders in these societies are just ways to cope with homosexuality. Notice that these third genders are all born male. Never goes the other way.
 
Trausti said:
The third genders in these societies are just ways to cope with homosexuality. Notice that these third genders are all born male. Never goes the other way.
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I'm not sure what point you're making with that. There aren't women who have to cope with homosexuality there?
 
TurkeysGhost said:
Seems like the mother will have to come to terms with it sooner or later, because 16 and 17 year olds soon become adults who no longer have to ask permission.
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You are avoiding the point I was making: that the mother was perfectly justified in concern for her autistic child and the life changing decisions she is making. That doesn't make her a "viscous transphobe" does it?

Anyway, just because her daughter will go from being a vunerable child to a vulnerable young adult at the magic age of 18, doesn't mean that medical teams should automatically acquiesce to her desire for mutilation of her body, does it? I can't think of any other situation where a surgeon would agree to such procedures for a young person with a "serious mental health disorder" (your phrase), not to mention the comorbidities of autism and ADHD.

If their heartfelt desire was to have their legs removed, then they would be directed to mental health services, not a bone-saw.
 
Samson said:
Since transgenderism can never occur in nature, what are we left with?
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d4m10n said:
Wait, what? It is totally possible for hunter gatherer societies to recognize a third gender like fa'afafine.
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You're talking about transgenderism occurring as a social construct.

You could hare off on a tangent about whether human societies are natural in the sense Samson means, but I think that would be disingenuous.
 
d4m10n said:
The AAA and CASCA boards reached a decision to remove the session “Let’s Talk about Sex Baby: Why biological sex remains a necessary analytic category in anthropology” from the AAA/CASCA 2023 conference program. This decision was based on extensive consultation and was reached in the spirit of respect for our values, in order to ensure the safety and dignity of all of our members, as well as the scientific integrity of the program.

The first ethical principle in AAA’s Principles of Professional Responsibility is to “Do no harm.” The session was rejected because it relied on assumptions that run contrary to the settled science in our discipline, framed in ways that do harm to vulnerable members of our community. It commits one of the cardinal sins of scholarship—it assumes the truth of the proposition that it sets out to prove, namely, that sex and gender are simplistically binary, and that this is a fact with meaningful implications for the discipline.​

https://americananthro.org/news/no-...y-session-pulled-from-annual-meeting-program/

https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2023...fends-deplatforming-the-panel-as-transphobic/
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A related paper by Carole Hooven, published last year.

Academic Freedom Is Social Justice: Sex, Gender, and Cancel Culture on Campus
 
Trausti said:
The third genders in these societies are just ways to cope with homosexuality.
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This does nothing to vitiate my point. These human societies lack any technologies which might help people artificially change sex (e.g. blockers, hormones, surgery) but they still recognize that some people can adopt a gender role other than the one we'd normally see socially assigned to a newborn male.

theprestige said:
You're talking about transgenderism occurring as a social construct.
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A social construct arising in a society living as close to nature as humanly possible.

Samson said:
Was gonna say nurture.
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Care to expand on this?
 
d4m10n said:
This does nothing to vitiate my point. These human societies lack any technologies which might help people artificially change sex
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Nobody has the technology to change sex in humans. We can make cosmetic changes with surgery and hormones, but it's not an actual sex change.
 
FatherLukeduke said:
You are avoiding the point I was making: that the mother was perfectly justified in concern for her autistic child and the life changing decisions she is making. That doesn't make her a "viscous transphobe" does it?
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Apparently her child disagrees. You seem to be taking the estranged parents at face value for whatever reason .
 
lionking said:
News at 12. Child disagrees with parent over a decision they don’t like.
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Sometimes these disagreements are the fleeting conflicts common in childhood, sometimes they are the sources of bitter resentments that last well into adulthood.

Smart money says these mothers shouldn't expect much contact with their soon-to-be adult children.
 
Again my issue is we could be having this exact same argument about anything; height, weight, eye color, blood type with the same "My internal self image doesn't match reality" and we just... aren't.

Why does everyone's actual real world height that actually exists in the real objective world never clash with their "subjective internal self image of self" so that we have to have SOME version of the "Okay the are 5 foot 5... but they see themselves as 6 foot and we have to acknowledge that in some way?"

These are not questions we are bigoted simply for asking.

Why only sex/gender? Why does literally no other objective, real world biological variable demand accomodation for an internal sense of self?
 
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