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Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

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'Under the wreck'? The hull was above their heads.

Even if the Rockwater guys were only searching inside, there were plenty of teams of naval and other professional divers who examined the outside.

What you're saying is the divers should have put their lives at risk to swim under a freshly sunken ship, even though the risk of the hull settling further was an extreme risk at the time.

My guess is you're the person who rows their boat between the cargo vessel and the pier/dock side.

Anytime you put divers into the water there is danger. Every step must be taken to stay safe at all times. In any other thread, this should be obvious.
 
After two appearances recently I've been waiting to see if "the ship's electrician/radiographer" would turn out to be some elaborate joke rather than just an odd malapropism.

At my school, the school radiographer would inspect all our welds for signs of explosives or friction. He could tell them apart in 1".

Of course he could, because he was a psychology postgrad, kemo sabe?
 
What you're saying is the divers should have put their lives at risk to swim under a freshly sunken ship, even though the risk of the hull settling further was an extreme risk at the time.

My guess is you're the person who rows their boat between the cargo vessel and the pier/dock side.

Anytime you put divers into the water there is danger. Every step must be taken to stay safe at all times. In any other thread, this should be obvious.

How can this matter when there is a mystery to solve/conspiracy to expose? ;)

(Vixen of course is snug and safe in her chair at home.)
 
On the stroke of midnight

All times are approximate in reference to bow visor coming loose.

mid-point of journey distance-wise

And?

mid-point of journey time-wise

Nope.

sunk withoout trace of debris or flotsam within 35mins
the only comparable times of sinking are ships destroyed by military attack

Hogwash. Utter hogwash. I can list dozens of large ships going to the bottom in foul weather quickly, with no debris field. And Estonia's passenger accommodations and features were internal (meaning the stuff is on the inside of the ship). And it was a dark and stormy night, meaning the crew lashed everything down before sailing.

massive breach in the hull - not mentioned by JAIC - so 'classified'.

It wasn't there at the time of the sinking.

military vehicles seen loaded at last minute

Allegedly.

Capt Andresson not at the stern

Weird, almost as if his ship was in trouble, and he was trying to save it.

winchman received top military combat honours 'FOR OPERATIONS'.

Which has been patiently explained to you many times. The US Army and US Marines have issued citations and medals to soldiers and Marines who've rescued civilians a few time this year alone. Nothing strange here. And any smart person who has reviewed the footage of the rescue of the Estonia survivors it is painfully clear why such medals were awarded.

British naval explosives experts Braidwood & Fellows recognised a hexacomposite device on the bow undetonated.

They're wrong.

independent university academics cannot rule out explosive deformation of metal at the bow.

Two "academics" paid by the company couldn't rule them out, but they also couldn't rule them in. Just as a recent study by JREF forum study cannot rule out eels or sharks with frickin' lasers on their heads as causing the sinking.

Prof Ida Westermann of Norway Uni of Technology could rule out 'normal friction' such as pounding of waves.

And what did old Ida say about abnormal pounding. And did she know the Estonia was not built for open-ocean transit? Does Ida understand the difference in engineering and design between ships that work near-shore, and river environments, and the design requirements for oceangoing vessels?

And what does Ida say now that we know the certificate of seaworthiness was fraudulent, and the Estonia should never have put to sea in the first place?

[*NOTE: This certificate is an actual conspiracy, obviously ignored because it relfects the usual eastern European/post-Soviet era corruption, and not sooper sexy spie intergue.]

The fact the Swedish government demanded to have the vessel covered in concrete instead of bringing home the bodies.

Maybe they should have allowed scavengers to pick the wreck clean, and bring suffering to the families instead.
 
At a CIA Black Ops facility, somewhere in the Adirondacks, 1994 ...

CIA Planner (CP): Okay, we're stealing some Russian equipment because they are ahead of us with smokey engine technology. The plan is to load them onto trucks, and take them by ferry to Sweden.

Black Ops Operator(BOO): Uh, why not just drive the trucks to Poland? Or maybe load them onto a C-5 in Latvia?

CP: No, too easy. We load them onto a ferry, and then we sink the ferry. We have SEALs remove the engines from the wreck, and load them onto a submarine.

BOO: Wait, what?

CP: We can't implicate ourselves or the Swedes.

BOO: Why would the Swedes want outdated Soviet gear? Have you seen their weapons programs?

CP: I've already taken an old attack submarine out of mothballs.

BOO: You what?

CP: We're going to ram the ferry to sink it.

BOO: Okay, but both Ted and I can just, you know, drive those trucks to Poland. Like we've been doing for the past three years. Nobody has caught on yet, or cares.

CP: You're missing the bigger picture. We need to send a message to the Russians.

[BOO takes a second as he realizes his boss has lost his mind] I have a better idea. We train some hamsters to work with the local eel population to sink the ferry.

CP: I'm listening.

End Scene.
 
And what does Ida say now that we know the certificate of seaworthiness was fraudulent, and the Estonia should never have put to sea in the first place?

There wasn't a fraudulent certificate.
Estonia was sailing with exemptions that required it to stay inshore.
Also it was originally certified on a 'domestic' certification rather than the usual international certification. Sweden had done this with quite a few roro ferries at that time.

It's all in the report.
 
And what did old Ida say about abnormal pounding. And did she know the Estonia was not built for open-ocean transit? Does Ida understand the difference in engineering and design between ships that work near-shore, and river environments, and the design requirements for oceangoing vessels?

Likely she did not. A metallurgy specialization will certainly come into play in an overall assessment of the suitability of a particular vessel for a particular kind of sea duty, but the assessment will need to include contributions from other fields of expertise. The wave-impact models that estimate the loading on the hull are not subsumed in metallurgy per se, and are formulated irrespective of the material from which the ship is made.
 
At a CIA Black Ops facility, somewhere in the Adirondacks, 1994 ...

CIA Planner (CP): Okay, we're stealing some Russian equipment because they are ahead of us with smokey engine technology. The plan is to load them onto trucks, and take them by ferry to Sweden.

Black Ops Operator(BOO): Uh, why not just drive the trucks to Poland? Or maybe load them onto a C-5 in Latvia?

CP: No, too easy. We load them onto a ferry, and then we sink the ferry. We have SEALs remove the engines from the wreck, and load them onto a submarine.

BOO: Wait, what?

CP: We can't implicate ourselves or the Swedes.

BOO: Why would the Swedes want outdated Soviet gear? Have you seen their weapons programs?

CP: I've already taken an old attack submarine out of mothballs.

BOO: You what?

CP: We're going to ram the ferry to sink it.

BOO: Okay, but both Ted and I can just, you know, drive those trucks to Poland. Like we've been doing for the past three years. Nobody has caught on yet, or cares.

CP: You're missing the bigger picture. We need to send a message to the Russians.

[BOO takes a second as he realizes his boss has lost his mind] I have a better idea. We train some hamsters to work with the local eel population to sink the ferry.

CP: I'm listening.

End Scene.

CP: Ahh, nvm on the submarine lol no no lets put some C4 amidships just above the waterline.

BOO: wait that might not even sink the ship, and won't that be a dead giveway?? Why not just blow the front hatch open, we can blame the sinking on like a few strong waves or something.

CP: hahhahaha, no see, we're dead sure we'll get this EXACTLY right and the ship will land that side down, and anyways were gonna get the new incoming PM of Sweden to bury it in concrete if that fails. We here in the CIA have an AWESOME relationship with the Swedish Social Democrats!

BOO: kay.

CP: oh and BTW we NEED yes yes we NEED it to happen at precisely midnight Swedish time and also simultaneously exactly halfway thru the ships route.

BOO: yeah... uhh what?

CP: ohh and we need to jam all radio signals.... but like really poorly. So someone can get a cellphone call out from the ship.

BOO: I see... that makes... uh... sense.
 
  • On the stroke of midnight
  • mid-point of journey distance-wise
  • mid-point of journey time-wise
  • sunk withoout trace of debris or flotsam within 35mins
  • the only comparable times of sinking are ships destroyed by military attack
  • massive breach in the hull - not mentioned by JAIC - so 'classified'.
  • military vehicles seen loaded at last minute
  • Capt Andresson not at the stern
  • winchman received top military combat honours 'FOR OPERATIONS'.
  • British naval explosives experts Braidwood & Fellows recognised a hexacomposite device on the bow undetonated.
  • independent university academics cannot rule out explosive deformation of metal at the bow.
  • Prof Ida Westermann of Norway Uni of Technology could rule out 'normal friction' such as pounding of waves.
  • The fact the Swedish government demanded to have the vessel covered in concrete instead of bringing home the bodies.


I’ve read that 9 of the Estonia’s lifeboats were recovered as flotsam. As discussed here extensively, so were the 2 EPIRBS.


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Which has been patiently explained to you many times. The US Army and US Marines have issued citations and medals to soldiers and Marines who've rescued civilians a few time this year alone. Nothing strange here. And any smart person who has reviewed the footage of the rescue of the Estonia survivors it is painfully clear why such medals were awarded.


Just to pile on, here is an article from The Baltimore Sun:

Harbor tragedy's heroes honored

By Athima Chansanchai
Baltimore Sun
Published: Apr 18, 2004 at 12:00 am

. . . A rainbow suddenly arced from the Baltimore Naval Reserve Center to an aged, 72-foot troop deployment ship from which naval reservists held the feet of Petty Officer 2nd Class Jerry Neblett, who repeatedly stretched into the water to pull out those caught beneath the capsized Lady D.

Shivering later from hypothermia, the 24-year-old machinist said he couldn't get that rainbow out of his head. It stayed with him when he later met with the relatives of the victims of the March 6 accident. . . .

The sun was shining -- with temperatures finally spring-like -- as Neblett and 25 fellow reservists received medals and citations for their roles in rescuing the men, women and children who were thrown into the harbor by a sudden squall that overturned the 36-foot pontoon boat. Five passengers died.

At the awards ceremony, high-ranking Navy officials -- including Assistant Secretary Dionel M. Aviles -- joined members of Congress in honoring the men and women on weekend exercises who quickly became a cohesive team and rushed to the overturned craft. Speakers credited their heroism and quick thinking with keeping the number of casualties from climbing. . . .

U.S. Sen. Barbara A. Mikulski delivered a spirited tribute, in which she commended the crew for "forming a human chain, lashed to each other, brother to brother," to pull survivors out of the water.

Among the links in that chain were Lt. Cmdr. Art Eisenstein of the U.S. Naval Sea Cadet Corps, Cmdr. Petersen Decker, Petty Officer 2nd Class Sean Tate, Petty Officer 2nd Class Jeffrey King and Neblett.

They received the highest awards -- the Navy & Marine Corps Medal -- for their multiple dives into the water. The medal is given for heroism in noncombat settings. . . .​
 
Does your source for this info also list previous acknowledged military attacks which match this 'halfway' profile, to indicate it is a clue suggesting military involvement?

I assume the answer is no.

The source is a simple distance calculator on google. (No, I no longer have the link to this auto-function.)

The precise time and the location points to forward planning. For example, you arrange to meet someone, you would say, 'Two o'clock under the clock at Victoria Station', you wouldn't say, 'Let's meet at 14:18 three-quarters of the way to the V&A', especially if there is a whole team of you.
 
So, which is it Vixen... did this military operation plan to blow the ship at precisely midnight (for a timezone the ship wasn't in), or did they plan it for exactly halfway along the journey? Or did the escorting sub accidentally ram it. Or was it rammed on purpose?

Oh and if these mysterious military cargo trucks were loaded last minute, they'd be at the stern. Why is the gash on the Estonia near amidships? Why is it above the waterline. If it was the cargo that exploded the hole would be near the stern would it not? Why would a special forces team plant explosives there and not lower?

None of this makes any sense. None.

You have to put all your theories combined together for them to fit. And they are largely mutually exclusive.

The JAIC didn't tackle any of this. Could have been some kind of conflict. Witnesses claim to have seen arguing between official at the port about the trucks being loaded. Another witness claims Captain Andresson was seen in any angry confrontation with a group of six or seven men. Who knows? Someone was determined to load that cargo. Someone else was determined it shall not arrive in Stockholm. Andresson was likely not alive or incapacitated when the Mayday went out. Did he shoot himself when he knew drowning was imminent, as in the old-style nazi tradition or did someone top him. You would have thought the JAIC would identify exactly who was on the bridge as of the time of the accident but all we have are Rockwater reports of a man in red jacket with tattoos on his hand lying under a cabinet.

Or maybe you don't think any of this was relevant?
 
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