Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

[MarkCorrigan]

As I said before, he is a performer with a stage name. Perhaps you could learn to discern fake from real.

Perhaps you could. He is not a performer and it isn't a stage name. He's a real conspiracy theorist and Anti-Semite and you rely on him for information. You've been caught doing it before.

 

[Vixen]

Perhaps you could. He is not a performer and it isn't a stage name. He's a real conspiracy theorist and Anti-Semite and you rely on him for information. You've been caught doing it before.

He's a quasi.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

A quasi what? You know that quasi isn't a descriptor on it's own right?

 

[Vixen]

A quasi what? You know that quasi isn't a descriptor on it's own right?

A quasi-conspiracy theorist. He is either a disinformation agent or he is a performer like Russell Brand or David Icke. It is clear he is backed by big money, looking at his sleek webpages and his ridiculous claims.

Probably set up by CIA in the same way Combat 18 was set up by MI5 to keep an eye on the far-right loonies. The Anti-Vax movement is a far-right scheme to mingle with ordinary people and sow discontent and misinformation.

I would ignore these people if I were you.

 

[JayUtah]

He is either a disinformation agent or he is a performer like Russell Brand or David Icke.

So you don't actually know.

It is clear he is backed by big money, looking at his sleek webpages and his ridiculous claims.

But he is clearly your source.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

A quasi-conspiracy theorist. He is either a disinformation agent or he is a performer like Russell Brand or David Icke. It is clear he is backed by big money, looking at his sleek webpages and his ridiculous claims.

He's neither.

Probably set up by CIA in the same way Combat 18 was set up by MI5 to keep an eye on the far-right loonies.

This is a lie.

The Anti-Vax movement is a far-right scheme to mingle with ordinary people and sow discontent and misinformation.

I would ignore these people if I were you.

Ok you're taking the piss now. You're not serious, you were never serious.

ETA: Now Vixen has given up even the remotest semblance of being serious and has practically told us she's trolling for a reaction or because she finds this funny, I suggest everyone else just stops giving her the attention she wants. She's a child throwing a tantrum in the supermarket to get mummy and daddy to pay attention.

 

[Axxman300]

The idea that 'it was a rocky outcrop what dunnit' seems just as much an inspired idea as anything Jutta Rabe had to offer.

Except there were no explosions, no evidence of explosives used, and the damage corresponds to the rocky bottom.

You fail.

Answer this: how come Germany refused to sign the Peace of Estonia Treaty and why won't Meyer-Werft just put up its hand and admit liability? OK, so the compo would come to perhaps billions but that would barely dent its Balance Sheet when all is said and done.

I don't pretend to understand European politics at this level. But I do understand lawyers.

 

[Steve]

You can't be serious. Just because he's not on Wikipedia he's a disinfo agent? Please tell me you're joking because the alternative is too sad for words.

We know he's real by the way, and we know he isn't playing a character. He's just a scumbag.

Hmmm..... Vixen is not on Wikipedia........

 

[Axxman300]

So why didn't the Rockwater guys, who searched the vessel thoroughly, going through it floor by floor, cabin by cabin, stairwell by stairwell, deck by deck, from the ship's bar to the lounge, up to the bridge, etcetera, not even notice the gaping breach in the hull?

There's a good chance the breach wasn't there when the dive took place. The ship has rolled over the years, grinding the hull against the rock face. The fact that the famous image is a stress-fracture along a seam of the plating suggests this to be the case.

 

[Axxman300]

Citation please.

It's in two of the damned links you've posted about the recent developments.

Pay attention...if possible...

 

[phiwum]

As I remember Vixen's original claim about the sub was that it rammed the ferry by accident in the storm.

This story will cycle back around soon enough. For now, it seems to be a Russian kamikaze sub.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Here_to_learn]

The final destination of the ex-Soviet technology is not known.

So, really? Customs officials were being forced to wave through dodgy consignments on dodgy cars with fake registration details...?

And here I can reuse my previous post. I've highlighted the relevant parts that show that again you are wrong.

So in other words, were it the CIA/MUST who ordered all that gear, this information was concealed from Hirschfeld's attention?

If it was above board, why the need to sneak it past customs at all?

That is incorrect, as has been discussed multiple times. You can also read it in the report. Given how often you bring this report up, one would expect you to actually have read it.

Det har genom utredningsarbetet kunnat klarläggas att Försvarsmakten vid två tillfällen under september månad 1994 har transporterat försvarsmateriel med M/S Estonia, nämligen den 14 och 20 september. Materielen har bestått av elektronisk utrustning utan någon anknytning till vapensystem. Materielen har inte till någon del varit av explosiv beskaffenhet. Den utrustning som ingått i de två nämnda transporterna har avsetts för det svenska försvaret.

Through the investigative work, it has been possible to clarify that on two occasions during the month of September 1994, the Swedish defence transported defense equipment with M/S Estonia, namely on 14 and 20 September. The material has consisted of electronic equipment with no connection to weapon systems. The material has not been of an explosive nature to any extent. The equipment included in the two mentioned transports has been intended for the Swedish defence.

also

Enligt överenskommelsen skulle införsel föregås av en särskild anmälan från Försvarsmakten till Generaltullstyrelsen. Min utredning har visat att Försvarsmakten, vid de två nämnda transporterna under september 1994, muntligen har anmält vid vilken tidpunkt och med vilket fordon införsel skulle komma att ske samt därvid uppgivit vilken materiel som avsågs. Tullen har i samband med införseln kunnat inspektera godset för att säkerställa att endast det som anmälts förts in och därvid fatta de beslut som tullen funnit nödvändiga.

According to the agreement, entry would be preceded by a special notification from the Swedish defence to the General Board of Customs. My investigation has shown that the Swedish defence, in connection with the two mentioned transports during September 1994, verbally notified at what time and with which vehicle the importation would take place and stated what material was intended. Customs has been able to inspect the goods in connection with the entry to ensure that only what has been declared has been brought in and thereby make the decisions that customs found necessary.

What was not in his remit to investigate is if any other country was transporting material on Estonia. So if CIA for example did it on their own, without involving the Swedish Defence that would not have been found out by this investigation.

However anything that included the Swedish defence (including MUST/KSI) was within the scope of the investigation.

 

[SpitfireIX]

What in gods name are you talking about with Nelson and double headed hammer?! Are you talking about double loading cannon?!

I was just going to ignore this, but as you asked about it, I'll respond. "Double-headed hammer" is a colloquial term for bar shot, in which multiple projectiles are connected by one or more iron bars. This, along with the closely related chainshot, is known as dismantling shot, and was used mainly to attempt to damage enemy vessels' masts, sails, and rigging.

As for Nelson's always following a broadside of "cannon shot" (presumably Vixen means roundshot, or ball) with a broadside of dismantling shot, she just pulled that out of an orifice, as usual. First, Nelson never told his captains what type of ammunition to fire; each captain used his own judgment based on Royal Navy doctrine and the tactical situation. Second, dismantling shot was usually fired from a ship's lighter guns, as a 32lb bar or chainshot was unlikely to cause significantly more damage than a 12lb shot, as either one would have likely torn through any rope, sail, or spar encountered. But a 32lb ball striking the hull of an enemy vessel would have almost certainly caused far more damage than a 12lb ball.

 

[Dabop]

Perhaps you can elucidate us all as to what exactly was being smuggled through customs on the two September 1994 dates Hirschfeld points out?

Lasers!!!

(for the sharks that attacked the Estonia and cut the gash above the waterline that sunk it)

Makes perfect sense*

* (note- making sense may require the consumption of copious amounts of alcohol or other intoxicants, or a significant concussion to be effective, effectiveness can vary, no warranty or guarantee applies to this conclusion)

 

[Andy_Ross]

The Soviets sent four torpedoes to sink the Wilhelm Gustloff, one failing to go off.

What does that have to do with anything,?

Are you saying that the Estonia was torpedoed by the Russians?

Do you know how insane that looks?

We went through this already. There's no damage that is consistent with a torpedo.For a start there's no damage under the waterline and a torpedo would have ripped the Estonia apart.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

So, ' the Swedish defence transported defense equipment with M/S Estonia, namely on 14 and 20 September'... do you see why people were concerned that military defence equipment was being sent, customs sight unseen, on a passenger ferry packed with little children...

The material was not unseen by customs. It was checked to ensure it was what it was purported to be (electronic equipment) and then the vehicle (an ordinary Volvo car) was waved through.

Do you read your own sources?

 

[Andy_Ross]

I was just going to ignore this, but as you asked about it, I'll respond. "Double-headed hammer" is a colloquial term for bar shot, in which multiple projectiles are connected by one or more iron bars. This, along with the closely related chainshot, is known as dismantling shot, and was used mainly to attempt to damage enemy vessels' masts, sails, and rigging.

As for Nelson's always following a broadside of "cannon shot" (presumably Vixen means roundshot, or ball) with a broadside of dismantling shot, she just pulled that out of an orifice, as usual. First, Nelson never told his captains what type of ammunition to fire; each captain used his own judgment based on Royal Navy doctrine and the tactical situation. Second, dismantling shot was usually fired from a ship's lighter guns, as a 32lb bar or chainshot was unlikely to cause significantly more damage than a 12lb shot, as either one would have likely torn through any rope, sail, or spar encountered. But a 32lb ball striking the hull of an enemy vessel would have almost certainly caused far more damage than a 12lb ball.

As ever, Drachinifel has a number of good videos on the subject

 

[Mojo]

The material was not unseen by customs. It was checked to ensure it was what it was purported to be (electronic equipment) and then the vehicle (an ordinary Volvo car) was waved through.

Do you read your own sources?

She does, but she has a pair of Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Sunglasses that prevent her seeing anything that might alarm her.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

She does, but she has a pair of Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Sunglasses that prevent her seeing anything that might alarm her.

Like facts?

 

[Vixen]

A suicide mission like that doesn't strike me as anything any remotely competent military would plan.



Hopelessly dishonest. You're vastly exaggerating how much of the upper portion of the wreck they could safely examine. And you're pretending to be bewildered that they didn't consider it safe to search under the wreck. This is desperate stuff.

'Under the wreck'? The hull was above their heads.

Even if the Rockwater guys were only searching inside, there were plenty of teams of naval and other professional divers who examined the outside.