Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

[Vixen]

Nope, that is someone that claims to summarize an tv show. That is not a quote from Carl Övberg. Show the actual quote from him.

See page 6 of his statement here:

https://www.estoniaferrydisaster.net/estonia final report/enclosures HTM/12.4.2.151.htm

Also, you can see the documentary 'The Find that Changes Everything' by Henrik Evertsson on Discovery+ channel, in which Övberg is interviewed in depth.

 

[Vixen]

Yes, and? Check-in happens on land. Then you queue before you are allowed to drive on board. I'm not sure what you are arguing?

You said that as soon as the last car goes on, the ramp goes up. I was simply pointing out that the cruiser/ferries around here put the ramp up at a set time, not when they think the last car has gone on. This is because you can just turn up and buy a ticket within the time frame, so they do not necessarily know who is last.

 

[Vixen]

So now we have accounts of every number between four and zero military trucks boarding the Estonia. I wonder how many can be spotted still aboard.

It's not my account.

Here is the account of Sara Hedrenius:

Sara told the authorities everything she remembers about the tragic night.
- I also told about the military equipment that I saw being loaded to Estonia just before the ship left. I asked SHK to look into it, but was told that it is not their main line of inquiry.

https://www.iltalehti.fi/tv-ja-leffat/a/c73dcab3-d36c-42ca-b12e-ec449873c097

 

[Vixen]

Another post composed entirely of fiction.

There hadn't been a failure to 'reset' them from any kind of 'switched off' condition. Switching them on would have activated them.

There is no way to switch them off while idling in port, they are always off unless activated, there's only one switch. You have invented some extra switch or some condition for storage to fit your fantasy.

When the buoys were recovered they were found to be in working order and when activated transmitted a signal at full strength for the expected period of time.

If there had been any concerns over them not working as they should it would have been in the report and a large investigation would have taken place. It would have been a major concern for the entire global shipping industry.

It was reported in many quality sources at the time.

Were the EPIRB’s of any concern at the time?

Another oddity related to the alarm also occurred in connection with the accident. The ship had an alarm and position buoy for the sarsat-cospas system, which automatically transmits the alarm via satellite while sending the coordinates of its own position.
Kalle Pedak , the director general of the Estonian Maritime Administration , thinks that the buoy was not thrown into the water, but that it must have gone to the bottom with the ship.

HS 29.9.1994
https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000003370653.html

and

Today, we will hear from an expert on the operation of Estonia's EPIRB satellite buoys.
The buoys were found in the sea after the accident, and Estonians and Finns tested their operation on Tuesday. According to Estonian Radio, the buoys were meant to transmit a radio signal. However, on the night of the accident, for some reason, the signal could not be received anywhere.
Buoys were supposed to signal the ship's position in case of emergency.

https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000003402741.html
27.1.1995

Mikko Montonen [Lt. Cptn] is more concerned about where the ship's epirb buoys disappeared.

"The buoys had been serviced a couple of months* ago. There were two of them, and they should have been placed in the ship's superstructures so that at least one of them would float, regardless of which side the ship capsized on," Montonen wonders.

… the buoy should pop to the surface, we already thought that there it was the unfortunate one." [as being seen in a videofilm presentation]. The Epirb buoy activates in the water and sends a name and position message to satellites that transmit the message to the ground station, in the case of the Baltic Sea, to Bodo in Norway. From there, the message is transferred to the nearest maritime rescue centre. Although the route sounds complicated, the message travels in a matter of seconds.

9 Oct 1994
https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000003373270.html

And

Estonian emergency buoys - tuning had been forgotten

The two emergency buoys of the car ferry Estonia did not send a signal to the rescuers because they had not been tuned on board. Emergency buoys burst to the surface properly as the ship sank. The Accident International Commission of Inquiry has investigated the activities of the emergency buoys that have drifted off the coast of Estonia. The buoys' batteries were fully charged, but they could not send anything untuned, says Commissioner Kari Lehtola. The committee closed its two-day meeting in Helsinki on Friday. The so-called EPIRB emergency buoys had been recently serviced and had been deployed in accordance with the rules. However, during the setup phase, the activation of the buoys was forgotten: the protective cover must be opened and the switch turned on. The activation of the emergency buoy was one of the tasks of the radio electricians in Estonia, of which there were two on board. The investigation is still ongoing, but the Commission has consulted the radio operator, said Asser Koivisto, a member of the Commission's expert. The purpose of the distress buoy is to send the location of the sunken ship and tell the searchers the name of the ship. According to Koivisto's assessment, the buoyancy of the buoys did not have a major effect on the rescue operations themselves, as the buoys do not float to the surface until the ship has sunk.
28.1.1995
Tukkimäki Paavo

Also

TALLINN - Satellite passenger buoys (EPIRBs) on the Estonian passenger ferry have been found, the Estonian Ministry of Transport announced on Monday. Experts are now investigating why the buoys were not operating at the time of the accident. The radio transmitters in the buoys should have automatically reported the exact position of the vessel via satellites after being submerged.

13.12.1994
https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000003390961.html

TALLINN - Car Ferry The Estonian EPIRB satellite buoys were operational, although for some reason the message they sent automatically did not progress to the alarm system. Estonian and Finnish experts tested buoys detached from sunken Estonia on Tuesday at the icebreaker Tarmo. According to Estonian radio, the buoys sent a four-hour radio message that should arrive via satellite at the ground station. Next, we want to investigate the operation of the ground stations to find out where the auto-triggered alarm message disappeared. Satellite alerts in the Baltic Sea area will be received at Bodö, Norway, which will transmit the information to the nearest maritime rescue center. Satellite alerts in the Baltic Sea may also be printed in Falmouth, England, or Toulouse, France. In connection with the Estonian accident, the absence of a satellite alert was puzzling. The buoys were later found stranded off the coast of Estonia.

https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000003402022.html
25.1.1995 2:00

Stop pretending to know better than the experts at the time and who had access to all of the details.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It's not my account.

Of course it isn't. You weren't there. We have accounts from people who were there, claiming there were definitely zero, one, two, three and four military trucks on board.

 

[Andy_Ross]

It was reported in many quality sources at the time.

Were the EPIRB’s of any concern at the time?


HS 29.9.1994
https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000003370653.html

and



https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000003402741.html
27.1.1995




9 Oct 1994
https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000003373270.html

And



Also


13.12.1994
https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000003390961.html




https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000003402022.html
25.1.1995 2:00

Stop pretending to know better than the experts at the time and who had access to all of the details.

Another post of complete and utter bollocks

 

[Jack by the hedge]

There was 'alarm in the shipping industry'...

Right. But of course that was only *before* the buoys were found, and discovered not to have been switched on.

After they were found and examined and discovered to work normally, was there continued alarm that the buoys had not activated themselves automatically? No. There was not. Because they were Kannad 406F models which had not been switched on. The puzzle of no emergency location signal being received was explained. The beacons were not faulty.

Do you want to try again? Do you have a source expressing their alarm and consternation that Kannad 406F buoys which simply had not been switched on did not automatically switch themselves on?

I predict you do not.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

See page 6 of his statement here:

https://www.estoniaferrydisaster.net/estonia final report/enclosures HTM/12.4.2.151.htm

I didn't see anything on that page about making way for a military truck; he only mentions that the area around the terminal was shut off, he believes, by military forces. Perhaps the truck was on a different page?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

VIXEN. Why are you ignoring me? It's incredibly rude you know.

 

[JayUtah]

There was...

Literally every word of this is contradicted by primary evidence. Learn how evidence works.

 

[JayUtah]

Even if the MV Estonia was pierced on its side by a rocky outcrop - despite landing face down - why didn't the JAIC mention it?

Literally because there was no way for anyone to have seen it at the time. Learn how eyeballs work.

 

[JayUtah]

You are quite wrong in your assumptions.

Nope. Your source is one article whose author in turn relies on one source, and not a very reliable one in this case.

Don't like it? Find a second source for your Koivisto claim.

You also made a previous assumption that Koivisto was just a businessman who had never actually served as a seaman. But in Finland it is that law that every man has to undertake military service...

But not at sea, in his case.

As for submarines: they are not always submerged.

Asked and answered many times. Learn what part sticks out on a submarine even when it's on the surface.

This is factual.

No, it's clearly you trying to substitute hype, insinuation, and inference as if it were fact.

 

[JayUtah]

It has not confirmed anything of the sort. Sweden has secrecy laws - not unlike the UK's Official Secrets Act - and it will not be giving out any information until it has been signed off...

Blah blah conspiracy blah blah.

 

[JayUtah]

I can guarantee you will not be given that information.

Blah blah conspiracy blah blah.

 

[JayUtah]

Stop pretending to know better than the experts at the time and who had access to all of the details.

...or rather, as is obvious from their statements, didn't have access to the details and were supposing and assuming.

 

[phiwum]

Acknowledge the elephant in the room, don't ignore it.

The Mayday is the responsibility of the Captain or the second mate. Likewise this Mayday should have been sent from the bridge, where the VHF or FM installation is a lot more powerful than a walkie-talkie.

Why:

• on the stroke of Swedish midnight did the catastrophe begin to commence?
• Why didn't Capt. Arvo Andresson not make the Mayday at that point from the bridge?
• Why was fourth mate Ainsalu using a walkie talkie trying to get through?
• Why did the Captain of Mariella have the impression this was not his first attenpt to make contact?
• Why did Mariella have to turn their frequency reception up to maximum to even hear Ainsalu?
• Why could Ainsalu not give Silja Europa (who took over) his location, which should have shown up clearly on the bridge digitals?
• Ainsalu, said, 'blackout' but why didn't the battery-operated backup kick in?
• The next contact was made by third mate, Tammes, who had now got the coordinates (except it was 8" out. Why were they not immediately available?
• Why did Silja Europe get the impression MV Estonia could not hear him or only marginally?
• Why did Capt Thoresson of Mariella have to keep calling and calling to try to get through to Turku MRCC?
• Why did he have to look up the MRCC landline number to eventually get through?
• Why did the accident happen so fast in the first place that caused it to sink in record time?

Stop trying to make out that 'everything was fine'.

I'm confused. Is this disaster an accident where a sub escort accidentally collided, or was it planned to occur right at midnight?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I will never understand why some people just repeat themselves over and over again.

If someone disagreed with my posts, I would look to see why, assess my sources and either present a counter argument as to why they were wrong with new evidence or highlight the errors in their post, or I would retract my statement and acknowledge I was incorrect.

What I wouldn't do is simply declare I was right and repeat my original claim verbatim.

 

[Steve]

I will never understand why some people just repeat themselves over and over again.

If someone disagreed with my posts, I would look to see why, assess my sources and either present a counter argument as to why they were wrong with new evidence or highlight the errors in their post, or I would retract my statement and acknowledge I was incorrect.

What I wouldn't do is simply declare I was right and repeat my original claim verbatim.

But you do seem to be capable of critical and rational thought.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

If Discovery+ documentaries are now authoritative, have mermaids & megalodons been ruled out?

 

[Mojo]

Literally because there was no way for anyone to have seen it at the time. Learn how eyeballs work.

Remember, in Vixen's universe she had "a bird's eye view" of 10 Downing Street's back yard from Old Queen Street, and "it was a very good view".