Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

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We aren't allowed to speculate on the motives of posters here, but I long ago drew my conclusions. Vixen's contribution here is in no way consistent with actually discovering the reason why the Estonia sank or examining the issues—if any—surrounding the subsequent investigation of the accident. I will refrain from saying what I believe her contribution is more consistent with, but I'm not alone in making assessments.

Insofar as the new investigation is meant to quell conspiracy theories, it was misguided from the start. Those conspiratorial questions raised in the wake of the first investigation have no footing in sound science, sound engineering, and sound investigative practice. Tragedies compel us to look for answers, and they sadly compel a few miscreants to feed conspiratorial answers more consistent with acquiring attention than with learning the truth. Some people want there to be a conspiracy because that soothes their souls more than the grim, unremarkable truth. No amount of new investigation makes that desire go away. Conspiracy theories didn't fundamentally arise out of fact and they cannot be dispelled by fact.

Insofar as the new investigation was meant to address new observations, it has succeeded in confirming the prosaic hypotheses for such things as the holes in the hull.

Insofar as the new investigation was meant to address legitimate forensic engineering questions, it has confirmed the findings of the prior investigation. If anything, it has suggested that the prior investigation was too lenient on the owners and operators of the vessel. MS Estonia was not seaworthy for the voyages she was assigned to undertake nor operated safely. Undoubtedly new investigative techniques such as greatly enhanced flooding models will expand our understanding of the accident, but nothing so far has transformed the conclusion first reached. The sniping and bickering from the lay sidelines has been profoundly ignorant of the relevant disciplines of study and practice, and remains so.

But it does generate attention, and that seems to more closely explain why some in society advocate conspiracy theories. Some like Alex Jones make a lot of money lying to people and playing into their desire to believe in imaginary monsters. Others like to cloak themselves in faux virtue. And some just like to stir the pot because they're bored. Those people thrive on baiting people to keep giving attention to the pot-stirring itself, knowing the irresistible urge among some skeptics to set every record straight.

It has not confirmed anything of the sort. Sweden has secrecy laws - not unlike the UK's Official Secrets Act - and it will not be giving out any information until it has been signed off as being all right to go out as official fact. Do you really believe that they will announce before even commencing the investigation their results? It would be most irresponsible. The press conferences are simply a update on what stage of the investigation we are in at the moment.
 
So, the ramp is not slammed shut 'when the last car has boarded', it is shut at the scheduled time.
As I said in the post you quote - I have personally experienced that it closes behind me. So your statement is simply false.

I can understand that you might not have experienced it, but that doesn't change the fact.

One example was this summer, while boarding the Smyrril line ferry from Faroe islands to Iceland. The ferry arrived and left within one hour, including offloading trucks and cars, and driving new cars on board. By the time we were walking up from car deck to the cabins, the ship was moving again.
 
I'm sorry, but the Ovberg chap says he was the last to board. As a frequent traveller on that route, as a businessman, he says he was running a bit late and when he arrived at the port the road had been sealed off by military to make way for a military truck, which he claims he witnessed, as did another passenger, independent of him, from an upper deck. The MV Estonia was fifteen minutes late departing, which in itself is unusual as the nordics tend to be great sticklers for punctuality and keeping to the time tables. The top chief was under contract to reach performance measures as the docking times at the Port of Stockholm had to run smoothly (as with any airport).

I don't doubt Mr Juhannsson thought he was last. It doesn't mean he was.

Ship timetables don't work like that.
Passage times are influenced by tide and weather.
 
I'm sorry, but the Ovberg chap says he was the last to board. As a frequent traveller on that route, as a businessman, he says he was running a bit late and when he arrived at the port the road had been sealed off by military to make way for a military truck, which he claims he witnessed, as did another passenger, independent of him, from an upper deck. The MV Estonia was fifteen minutes late departing, which in itself is unusual as the nordics tend to be great sticklers for punctuality and keeping to the time tables. The top chief was under contract to reach performance measures as the docking times at the Port of Stockholm had to run smoothly (as with any airport).

I don't doubt Mr Juhannsson thought he was last. It doesn't mean he was.

Ship timetables don't work like that.
Passage times are influenced by tide and weather.

Ferries on regular runs use their own dedicated terminals, docking times are down to the company operating them.
 
Carl Övberg didn't have a car on board, he was driven to the harbour and dropped of there. Boarding on foot is not the same thing as boarding with a car.

And of course if you like his story, I assume you listen to all of it. For example this:
https://www.dn.se/arkiv/inrikes/slu...na-carl-i-hytt-1-049-besattningen-var-nervos/

OK, my bad. But the salient point is, he claims to have seen the military truck boarding. His account of the unfolding disaster is very detailed.
 
I'm sorry, but the Ovberg chap says he was the last to board. As a frequent traveller on that route, as a businessman, he says he was running a bit late and when he arrived at the port the road had been sealed off by military to make way for a military truck, which he claims he witnessed,
I cannot find any place where the highlighted part is said by Carl Övberg. Please link to a source that supports this statement.
 
There was 'alarm in the shipping industry'. The Coastguard Commander contacted Boden (satellite reception centre) in Norway demanding to inspect the signals log because he was convinced that in no way would the EPIRBs of MV Estonia not have emitted a signal to the satellite once immersed. If they were manually activated-only EPIRB's they would have just shrugged their shoulders and said oh, well no-one had a chance to switch them on. The Rockwater divers also, as part of their remit, specifically went to examine the EPIRB cages on the underwater wreck and discovered them both empty and recovered an HRU for one of them, indicating that the HRU had done what it says on the tin - released the EPIRB on immersion with water - but for some reason, someone had switched the EPIRB's off or the ship's electricians/radiographers had failed to reset them after a period of having been switched off whilst idling at port. Yet the inspection logs show they had been inspected the week before as being in ready-normal mode.

Another post composed entirely of fiction.

There hadn't been a failure to 'reset' them from any kind of 'switched off' condition. Switching them on would have activated them.

There is no way to switch them off while idling in port, they are always off unless activated, there's only one switch. You have invented some extra switch or some condition for storage to fit your fantasy.

When the buoys were recovered they were found to be in working order and when activated transmitted a signal at full strength for the expected period of time.

If there had been any concerns over them not working as they should it would have been in the report and a large investigation would have taken place. It would have been a major concern for the entire global shipping industry.
 
From AMSA:

https://beacons.amsa.gov.au/about/float-free-epirbs.asp

I am sure Andy_Ross will be along shortly to claim that in 1994, stone age, everything was different.

There were several models of the same buoy, they all fitted in to the holders for that model of buoy. Only one type of enclosed holder was manufactured for that model.

My beacon is one of several options in the same range, the enclosure it's in will easily take all of them.
 
Acknowledge the elephant in the room, don't ignore it.

The Mayday is the responsibility of the Captain or the second mate. Likewise this Mayday should have been sent from the bridge, where the VHF or FM installation is a lot more powerful than a walkie-talkie.

Why:

  • on the stroke of Swedish midnight did the catastrophe begin to commence?
  • Why didn't Capt. Arvo Andresson not make the Mayday at that point from the bridge?
  • Why was fourth mate Ainsalu using a walkie talkie trying to get through?
  • Why did the Captain of Mariella have the impression this was not his first attenpt to make contact?
  • Why did Mariella have to turn their frequency reception up to maximum to even hear Ainsalu?
  • Why could Ainsalu not give Silja Europa (who took over) his location, which should have shown up clearly on the bridge digitals?
  • Ainsalu, said, 'blackout' but why didn't the battery-operated backup kick in?
  • The next contact was made by third mate, Tammes, who had now got the coordinates (except it was 8" out. Why were they not immediately available?
  • Why did Silja Europe get the impression MV Estonia could not hear him or only marginally?
  • Why did Capt Thoresson of Mariella have to keep calling and calling to try to get through to Turku MRCC?
  • Why did he have to look up the MRCC landline number to eventually get through?
  • Why did the accident happen so fast in the first place that caused it to sink in record time?

Stop trying to make out that 'everything was fine'.

Lots of ships sink without transmitting a distress. That's why they have to carry the EPIRBs.

A situation can develop quickly, once a ship has a heavy list the VHF transmission range is much reduced
Loss of power can take out the main radio fit.
a rapidly developing situation can distract the bridge crew.
People freeze or panic.
People forget.
 
As I said in the post you quote - I have personally experienced that it closes behind me. So your statement is simply false.

I can understand that you might not have experienced it, but that doesn't change the fact.

One example was this summer, while boarding the Smyrril line ferry from Faroe islands to Iceland. The ferry arrived and left within one hour, including offloading trucks and cars, and driving new cars on board. By the time we were walking up from car deck to the cabins, the ship was moving again.

That is not Sweden is it? Last May I went on holiday to the Ålands, partly because I wanted to see the fabulous new cruise liner, and that it how it works, according to a carefully scheduled timetable. Of course, there are plenty of minor car ferries (you can go 'island hopping' on public transport using these ferries). You just turn up and queue up. Off it goes when everybody is on board. Backwards and forwards. If you miss one there'll be another in twenty minutes to an hour. Hardly the same thing at all.
 
Here are the boarding instructions:

Check-in The vehicle must be checked-in and ready to drive onto the ship 30 minutes before the ship's departure time. Vehicles over 2.4 meters high must be checked in no later than 45 minutes before the ship's departure time. We reserve the right to cancel the reservation if the passenger who booked the trip arrives late for check-in. Check that you have received the correct destination port label, which should be hung on the rear-view mirror on the car deck for guidance. From 1 October 2019, it is only possible to pay in cash at the car check-in at the port of Tallinn. Car check-in in Helsinki, Turku, Stockholm, Mariehamn and Långnäs does not accept cash, possible payments in car check-in only by card
https://www.vikingline.fi/valitse-matka/hyva-tietaa/autoilijat-ja-ajoneuvot/
 
I cannot find any place where the highlighted part is said by Carl Övberg. Please link to a source that supports this statement.

Here's one, from 'The Find that Changes Everything' documentary, where Mr Övberg speaks about his experience:

Before Estonia left the port on September 27, 1994, something strange happened. The ferry is fifteen minutes late, two or three military trucks accompanied by motorcycles are brought on board Estonia. Gunnar Ränkel, a former estonian criminal police officer, says there is a dispute between the Estonian police and the men of the Home Guard, who insist that the cargo be carried on board. The driveway is seen by the witness and survivor Sara Hedrenius, who went on deck because the boat appeared to be delayed so she wanted to see if she could still be waved off by her father. The third witness is a Carl Övberg, who also saw the military vehicles* brought on board Estonia.
https://retrogradera.com/2020/09/30...s-about-the-documentarys-most-burning-claims/


*I think he only actually mentions one.
 
That is not Sweden is it? Last May I went on holiday to the Ålands, partly because I wanted to see the fabulous new cruise liner, and that it how it works, according to a carefully scheduled timetable. Of course, there are plenty of minor car ferries (you can go 'island hopping' on public transport using these ferries). You just turn up and queue up. Off it goes when everybody is on board. Backwards and forwards. If you miss one there'll be another in twenty minutes to an hour. Hardly the same thing at all.
No, Faroe islands are not in Sweden. Iceland is also a separate nation. Smyril line from Faroe Islands to Iceland is a once-a-week trip, not a road ferry.
 
So now we have accounts of every number between four and zero military trucks boarding the Estonia. I wonder how many can be spotted still aboard.
 
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