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Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

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zooterkin said:
Once again, you appear to have trouble understanding plain English. What is ludicrous is not the topic, but your persistence in pushing nonsensical ideas when they have been shown, many times, to be so, and ignoring information given by other members of the forum which is backed up by factual references.
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Citation please of the nonsensical ideas (just because you cannot understand them doesn't make it nonsense) and citation of the factual references you refer to. Your claim I don't understand English proves you are indulging in ad hominem disguised as a telling off.
 
Vixen said:
Citation please of the nonsensical ideas (just because you cannot understand them doesn't make it nonsense) and citation of the factual references you refer to. Your claim I don't understand English proves you are indulging in ad hominem disguised as a telling off.
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Wheeled submarines.

Nuclear waste melting the bow visor lock.

Being unable to reach 700oC outside a lab.

Any of your fanciful pulp spy novel level claims about how intelligence services work.

Any time you quoted Anders Bjorkman.

Your claims you made resulting from your inability to understand nautical engineering.

Your claim that muzzle velocity remains constant during projectile flight.

Your claim that you saw IRA bombs through a building.

Your claim that there was Soviet materiel being transported the night the Estonia sank despite that not being the case (because they had to log the times it was being transported, it wasn't "classified").

Your apparent belief that classifying something is basically magic that erases it from view completely.

Your ridiculous claims about time notation that fly in the face of...well reality quite frankly.

That's just off the top of my head.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Who cares what a newspaper reported?
They obviously didn't research it or are spreading lies and misinformation.

It's in the ******* report.
It has its own section.

I'm not going over it all again. We spent weeks going in to it in minute detail.
I spent days tracking down old manufacturers manuals, spec sheets, service and repair documents for obsolete and out of production hardware that hasn't been used for decades.

I'm not doing it again, it's all in the thread

I'm not going through it all again because you seem to have a complete loss of memory or are just hoping everyone else has forgotten so you can tell us the same lies as last year.
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This is the model EPIRB presented to the JAIC by a marine communications expert.

53174310762_8a80a42b61_z.jpg


Close up:

53175340720_f74cb73cc0_w.jpg


It can be identified as this model here:

53174310772_475c881b2f_z.jpg


53175340135_3914155908_z.jpg


The Hydrostatic Release Unit of one of the EPIRBS was recovered from its cage by Rockwater divers. You can see it clutched in his hand.

53174905751_f6fe1d41fc_z.jpg


Over to you where is your proof that they were manual EPIRBs? You have none other than having to resort to scurrilous allusions to Alzheimers.
 
Vixen said:
This is the model EPIRB presented to the JAIC by a marine communications expert.

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53174310762_8a80a42b61_z.jpg[/qimg]

Close up:

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53175340720_f74cb73cc0_w.jpg[/qimg]

It can be identified as this model here:
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Walk us through the process, if you would?


From earlier threads, the model used on the MS Estonia was actually the Kannad 406 F. The 'F' indicates automatic release (float-free). The models that are automatically activated have an A in the model name, e.g. Kannad 406 AF.

Whether the item in the photos is identical or similar, you would also need to establish.
 
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MarkCorrigan said:
Wheeled submarines.

Nuclear waste melting the bow visor lock.

Being unable to reach 700oC outside a lab.

Any of your fanciful pulp spy novel level claims about how intelligence services work.

Any time you quoted Anders Bjorkman.

Your claims you made resulting from your inability to understand nautical engineering.

Your claim that muzzle velocity remains constant during projectile flight.

Your claim that you saw IRA bombs through a building.

Your claim that there was Soviet materiel being transported the night the Estonia sank despite that not being the case (because they had to log the times it was being transported, it wasn't "classified").

Your apparent belief that classifying something is basically magic that erases it from view completely.

Your ridiculous claims about time notation that fly in the face of...well reality quite frankly.

That's just off the top of my head.
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Your debating method of: 'a thing is so because I say so' is incredibly boring to me. Your debating technique of employing ridicule and hostility is likewise not really my cup of tea and way below my debating standards. If you wish me to engage in further debate with you, please can you modify your tone and adopt gentlemanly language.
 
Vixen said:
It can be identified as this model here:

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53174310772_475c881b2f_z.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53175340135_3914155908_z.jpg[/qimg]
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That's a page from a manual dated 2006, over 10 years after the Estonia sank, and when the EPIRBs that had been used were no longer in accordance with the regulations so would not be documented in a current manual. https://manualzz.com/doc/o/b8d3o/ka...e-procedure-2-.--kannas-406-ph---wh-container
 
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zooterkin said:
Walk us through the process, if you would?


From earlier threads, the model used on the MS Estonia was actually the Kannad 406 F. The 'F' indicates automatic release (float-free). The models that are automatically activated have an A in the model name, e.g. Kannad 406 AF.

Whether the item in the photos is identical or similar, you would also need to establish.
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Citation please of which post you are referring to.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
So it's impossible for them to be mistaken?



Also you completely ignored my point again. That's a habit with you isn't it? Refusing to actually address the points people make and arguing a tangent I mean.
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One person said she heard something that sounded like an explosion. Even she used the phrase "sounded like" in the translation provided by Vixen. Others heard bangs

Vixen is really exaggerating the claims of explosions.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
Vixen said:
This is the model EPIRB presented to the JAIC by a marine communications expert.

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53174310762_8a80a42b61_z.jpg[/qimg]

Close up:

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53175340720_f74cb73cc0_w.jpg[/qimg]

It can be identified as this model here:

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53174310772_475c881b2f_z.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53175340135_3914155908_z.jpg[/qimg]

The Hydrostatic Release Unit of one of the EPIRBS was recovered from its cage by Rockwater divers. You can see it clutched in his hand.

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53174905751_f6fe1d41fc_z.jpg[/qimg]

Over to you where is your proof that they were manual EPIRBs? You have none other than having to resort to scurrilous allusions to Alzheimers.
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Apart from that wasn't the model recovered. It was a different version.
It's all here in the thread. It's all in the official reports and the manuals for the exact model used.

We went through that **** you posted already in great detail. You seem to have completely forgotten all of it.
Can you wonder why I have doubts about you?
 
Vixen said:
Your debating method of: 'a thing is so because I say so' is incredibly boring to me. Your debating technique of employing ridicule and hostility is likewise not really my cup of tea and way below my debating standards. If you wish me to engage in further debate with you, please can you modify your tone and adopt gentlemanly language.
Click to expand...

So stop posting already debunked crap, made up **** and lies
 
Vixen said:
That is what usually happens when a passenger ship wrecks. The first thing the Coastguard/Police look for is the Captain (cf Concordia, Park Victory).



You do not find it at all astonishing that nobody has ever been charged, even with negligence?



That's fine. The sudden death of 1,000 innocent passengers is just one of those things.
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No. The first thing the coastguard look for is survivors.

The Stockholm police do not give orders to Sweden's search and rescue helicopters telling them to stop rescuing people and instead arrest suspects they may find bobbing in the waves.
 
Vixen said:
Your debating method of: 'a thing is so because I say so' is incredibly boring to me. Your debating technique of employing ridicule and hostility is likewise not really my cup of tea and way below my debating standards. If you wish me to engage in further debate with you, please can you modify your tone and adopt gentlemanly language.
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Amazing. Didn't you once accuse people of mocking the dead?

I'm not just claiming it's ridiculous because I say so, we went through each of those items when you first brought them up and you couldn't respond to the criticisms you received. You just dropped the topic, moved on and when you felt enough time had passed brought them back up again.
 
Ok, I'll be less acerbic.

Vixen, do you still contend that you cannot reach 700oC outside of a lab?

Do you still contend that muzzle velocity remains constant for the projectile?

Do you contend that there was Soviet materiel transported on the Estonia the night it sank?

Those are three yes/no questions. Please answer them.
 
Vixen said:
That is what usually happens when a passenger ship wrecks. The first thing the Coastguard/Police look for is the Captain (cf Concordia, Park Victory).
Click to expand...

Please show where the first thing the Coastguard looked for in those cases was the Captain rather than any and all survivors?
 
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